Nothing's changed! - Page 16 - PY Online Forums

red70goat · #**301** 12-15-2004, 03:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
>>> I don't where you got that idea. I said from the beginning that the "Jury" was a LeMans that had been outfitted from a dealer and marketed as a "Poor Mans GTO". Go back and check my original post on the "Jury". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Maybe because in your original post, you claimed that the Endura front end was an option on the GTO, and you used the "Jury" to support your claim. You know I'm right. Admit it. You'll feel better."

>>> Ok, if it makes you feel better as well then fine, but that wasn't my point. I was referencing the Jury as being marketed ( very loosely ) by Pontiac as a "Poor Mans GTO", but not really being a GTO, but rather a LeMans. ( per my original post on the Jury ) Thus, in 1970 there was only one real GTO offered and it was distinguishable by the endura bumper.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>>> Many times, because I don't consider the GM Monaro to be a GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Your opinion is duly noted, but not considered a valid one IMO."

>>> Perhaps not, but no matter how hard I've tried and even after a test drive I just cannot get excited about the butt ugly looks of this car.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>> Well, with all the feedback I've had on this subject I'm starting to think maybe I should hit it with a buffer, armourall the vinyl top and do just that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Maybe if you actually drove it, it might improve your disposition..."
>>> Maybe. Nothing like a musclecar to make one instantly feel better about things. I get that in my C5 but it's not the same. It's more of a sports car with a bad ass attitude.

"It may be below freezing here today, but it's clear and sunny right now and there isn't any snow yet. I might just have to warm up the cars and shred some tires today for the last time this year!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>>enjoy!

Mr_GTO · #**302** 12-15-2004, 04:53 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

Let's hope so. I've heard the same thing and some of the renderings I've seen aren't that much different than what is being produced now. The '05 is getting about the same amount of media attention the 04 got, maybe even less.I still maintain that if Pontiac doesn't make some changes by starting with a clean sheet, which means leaving Holden out of it all together, then the GTO will be scrapped due to lack of sales. I personally do not want to see that happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, the first magazine had a 05 GTO trouncing the Mustang in every shape and form.

Holden has some damn fine engineers who will have their DNA in the new GTO because that car is also going to be IMPORTED to Australia as the new Monaro.

red70goat · #**303** 12-15-2004, 05:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

Let's hope so. I've heard the same thing and some of the renderings I've seen aren't that much different than what is being produced now. The '05 is getting about the same amount of media attention the 04 got, maybe even less.I still maintain that if Pontiac doesn't make some changes by starting with a clean sheet, which means leaving Holden out of it all together, then the GTO will be scrapped due to lack of sales. I personally do not want to see that happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Funny, the first magazine had a 05 GTO trouncing the Mustang in every shape and form."
>>> Which "first" magazine were you referring to? I was referencing the majors such as C/D & M/T, etc. To date I haven't seen any exclusive coverage (coverage being the key word ) featuring the 05.

"Holden has some damn fine engineers who will have their DNA in the new GTO ".... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>> Another nail in the coffin.

Goat luver · #**304** 12-15-2004, 06:24 PM

red70goat wrote:
Name me one post where I made any mention to anybody on this forum of their family..... Nearly all of my posts have been aimed at GMs lack of effort in reviving the GTO.[/QUOTE]

I just picked a few sentences out from some of your previous ramblings... Uhh, I mean posts...

“The only ones that like this car are pre-pubescent tuners”

“...Read my post again moron. If your intellect is above that of a lug wrench you will see I was indicating the availability of the delete option.”

“you're right: the average american doesn't get it and the stupid ones are buying it.”

“However there is no law in this country against you being attracted to fat chicks”

I could list a lot more, but I think my point is made.

Keep up the good work!

red70goat · #**305** 12-15-2004, 06:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
red70goat wrote:
Name me one post where I made any mention to anybody on this forum of their family..... Nearly all of my posts have been aimed at GMs lack of effort in reviving the GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just picked a few sentences out from some of your previous ramblings... Uhh, I mean posts...

“The only ones that like this car are pre-pubescent tuners”

“...Read my post again moron. If your intellect is above that of a lug wrench you will see I was indicating the availability of the delete option.”

“you're right: the average american doesn't get it and the stupid ones are buying it.”

“However there is no law in this country against you being attracted to fat chicks”

I could list a lot more, but I think my point is made.

Keep up the good work![/QUOTE]

>>> again, name 1 post where I made any mention of a family memebr.

Goat luver · #**306** 12-15-2004, 06:54 PM

Family member or direct to an individual..... what's the difference?
My point is if you dish it out you have to be prepared to take it and stop whining about it.

red70goat · #**307** 12-15-2004, 08:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
Family member or direct to an individual..... what's the difference?
My point is if you dish it out you have to be prepared to take it and stop whining about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, I did the stir the pot and made some comments that were derogatory in nature that were probably better left unsaid. My purpose was to expose the generalities of out what happens when somebody is opposed to GMs attempt to revive the GTO. I made several posts that were not critical at all but were more based on opinion and observation. The majority reaction from those in favor of what GM is doing to didn't change regardless of the content of my post.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**308** 12-15-2004, 10:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

Let's hope so. I've heard the same thing and some of the renderings I've seen aren't that much different than what is being produced now. The '05 is getting about the same amount of media attention the 04 got, maybe even less.I still maintain that if Pontiac doesn't make some changes by starting with a clean sheet, which means leaving Holden out of it all together, then the GTO will be scrapped due to lack of sales. I personally do not want to see that happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, the first magazine had a 05 GTO trouncing the Mustang in every shape and form.

Holden has some damn fine engineers who will have their DNA in the new GTO because that car is also going to be IMPORTED to Australia as the new Monaro. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe they should leave the GTO badge off with the cars in the US also it might sell better that way.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**309** 12-15-2004, 11:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
[QUOTE]

so in the 70's the monaro's were trying to look like a real pontiac but now pontiacs are trying to look like monaro's ? amazing what 30 +/- years will do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Built on a Monaro chassis with a "look that is not uncommon in GMs lower level cars such as the TransAm or Cavalier"...Joe Ivers, Executive Director of Quality and Customer Satisfaction, JD Power and Associates : " Are GTO Weak Sales a Result of Flat Styling? " <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

couldnt have said it better myself

Mr_GTO · #**310** 12-16-2004, 03:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

maybe they should leave the GTO badge off with the cars in the US also it might sell better that way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First off, which Pontiac produced car, or for that matter GM car, is better than the Monaro right now? Please tell me. The ONLY car in that same class is the CTS/STS.

JJE, you think that the naming the car Monaro or LeMans would make it sell better? Please explain how it would do that since you have a masters in marketing. Please, I am sure we would all love to hear this.

The Champ · #**311** 12-16-2004, 03:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
True, I did the stir the pot and made some comments that were derogatory in nature that were probably better left unsaid. My purpose was to expose the generalities of out what happens when somebody is opposed to GMs attempt to revive the GTO. I made several posts that were not critical at all but were more based on opinion and observation. The majority reaction from those in favor of what GM is doing to didn't change regardless of the content of my post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I take umbrage to your claims.

Yes, you did post many derogatory items and you deserve every negative sent your way.

Your recent posts were a somewhat refreshing experience, but that does not mean that they were entirely accurate. But if you post things that are wrong, you should expect them to be questioned.

You were wrong on many of your points, and we corrected you.

We understand you don't like the car. That is your opinion, and I can accept that. But you don't have to make stuff up to validate your dislike.

red70goat · #**312** 12-16-2004, 08:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
True, I did the stir the pot and made some comments that were derogatory in nature that were probably better left unsaid. My purpose was to expose the generalities of out what happens when somebody is opposed to GMs attempt to revive the GTO. I made several posts that were not critical at all but were more based on opinion and observation. The majority reaction from those in favor of what GM is doing to didn't change regardless of the content of my post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your recent posts were a somewhat refreshing experience, but that does not mean that they were entirely accurate....
(QUOTE]

My recent posts as to if GM continues with their current format of having Holdens' fingers in the GTO pie will only continue to harm more than help Pontiac sell these cars was a matter of opinion and not an attempt to be accurate. I could very well be wrong, but I don't beleive the 05 is going to do that well given the current styling and lack of media attention. As a result I don't think we'll see an 07 GTO unless Pontiac starts with a clean slate....On their own turf.....With their own engineers. The 04 I saw at Jerry Seiner GMC / Pontiac in SLC was of very poor quality in finish. (orange peel / "sheep" hair )

red70goat · #**313** 12-16-2004, 10:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

maybe they should leave the GTO badge off with the cars in the US also it might sell better that way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

" for that matter GM car, is better than the Monaro right now? Please tell me."
>>> The C6 Vette.

"...you think that the naming the car Monaro or LeMans would make it sell better? Please explain how it would do that. Please, I am sure we would all love to hear this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>> Well,badging it a GTO certianly did wonders for it. I think a distinctly Australian name would have gone over quite well here...perhaps poking fun at the "stuffy" imports of BMW, Mecedes, Saab,etc. Marketing it as a fun, high performance vehicle from down-under. I understand Steve Irwin drives a Monaro. He's very popular here. A major ski-boat company, Skiers Choice recently purchased Moomba Ski boats, an Australian high performance ski boat manufacturer. Skiers Choice wisely kept the both the name and graphics Australian and marketed on that theme. There are a lot of Moombas on the lakes these days. It may be a stretch comparing a boat manufacturer to GM, but I think the analogy is a good one.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**314** 12-17-2004, 12:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

maybe they should leave the GTO badge off with the cars in the US also it might sell better that way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First off, which Pontiac produced car, or for that matter GM car, is better than the Monaro right now? Please tell me. The ONLY car in that same class is the CTS/STS.

JJE, you think that the naming the car Monaro or LeMans would make it sell better? Please explain how it would do that since you have a masters in marketing. Please, I am sure we would all love to hear this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

any gm car that is better then the monaro ? hell take your pick. why name it anything besides the GTO ? im glad you asked ( just like the LS1/LT1 being chevy engine that i replied to and you didnt have any other comments) think back to the first GTO's made. they WERE the first muscle car. they had a real pontiac engine. they looked fast standing still. they were made in america. now look at todays GTO. australlian car,chevy motor,pontiac badge,made in australlia. i could take a sh** and it would look better then this car. its slower then imports. and youre gonna give it a GTO badge? based on what? if you say technology of 40+ years to make it handle better and be more fuel economic or whatever. i hope with 40+ years of technology you can do that. it might be the fastest GTO made but it has a chevy engine in it and the 04 is slower then imports. so how does that make you feel about the fastest production GTO made? if you put a diffrent badge on it then you dont piss off the pontiac guys that think this car is a discrace to the origional. if it was called the pontiac "X" then i would have considered buying one. but not a GTO. and im sure many others would say the same thing. you give it a diffrent badge and it dont have to live up to expectations of what it used to be. that a good enough explination ? youre damn right im good at marketing/sales.

Mr_GTO · #**315** 12-17-2004, 03:32 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

any gm car that is better then the monaro ? hell take your pick. why name it anything besides the GTO ? im glad you asked ( just like the LS1/LT1 being chevy engine that i replied to and you didnt have any other comments) think back to the first GTO's made. they WERE the first muscle car. they had a real pontiac engine. they looked fast standing still. they were made in america. now look at todays GTO. australlian car,chevy motor,pontiac badge,made in australlia. i could take a sh** and it would look better then this car. its slower then imports. and youre gonna give it a GTO badge? based on what? if you say technology of 40+ years to make it handle better and be more fuel economic or whatever. i hope with 40+ years of technology you can do that. it might be the fastest GTO made but it has a chevy engine in it and the 04 is slower then imports. so how does that make you feel about the fastest production GTO made? if you put a diffrent badge on it then you dont piss off the pontiac guys that think this car is a discrace to the origional. if it was called the pontiac "X" then i would have considered buying one. but not a GTO. and im sure many others would say the same thing. you give it a diffrent badge and it dont have to live up to expectations of what it used to be. that a good enough explination ? youre damn right im good at marketing/sales. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for nameing ONE. Oh right, you didn't.

LS1 is NOT a Chevy engine. It is a GM Powertrain designed engine. Still trying to figure out why you can't get that. Right, it is made in Australia. I asked you for a better car build by Pontiac made in the US and you couldn't name one. And FYI, the last F-bodies were made in CANADA! NOT AMERICA! You did take Geography right?

Which import is it slower than again? And so what if it is? There were domestics that were quicker than the older ones back in the day.

So take the badge off. And if it so bad and it was called something else you would consider buying one? BS!!!!

Trust me, it is very evident you are not in sales or marketing.

The Champ · #**316** 12-17-2004, 09:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
it might be the fastest GTO made but it has a chevy engine in it and the 04 is slower then imports. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, there are a couple of imports that are "faster". There are motorcycles that are faster also.

But would you really want to drive one of those import POS's?

If you look long enough and hard enough, you can always find something better in one category or another.

But you need to look at the whole package.

I like the rumble of a V8. I like torque more than HP. I like to have a little room inside my car. I actually enjoy having things like power windows, locks and a comfortable interior in the new cars I buy today.

Those so called cars you reference hold no interest to me.

Tripower455 · #**317** 12-17-2004, 09:33 AM

It appears to me that the "Pontiac" guys who are complaining the loudest, are the ones that probaly wouldn't buy a new one anyway.

There is not one other car, for anywhere near the money, that is as good overall as the '04 GTO. For the same money as the new GTO, you will be sacrificing performance or comfort.

The only dissapointing thing about the new one is that it doesn't have any sort of in your face stying. It's not ugly, it just looks like every other car on the road.

Performance wise, it has it all, in spades, and more is easily attainable with the LS-1.

Nickv · #**318** 12-17-2004, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
it might be the fastest GTO made but it has a chevy engine in it and the 04 is slower then imports. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Were do you get your info? Slower than which imports? slower in top speed? 1/4 mile?

Since you obviously don't own one how would you know the 04 is slower?

racerboy · #**319** 12-17-2004, 10:51 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Slower than which imports <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here are a couple of faster imports:

2004 Porsche 911 Turbo (12.31 ET)
2004 Porsche 911 GT3 (12.48 ET)

Though I'm sure that Porsche and Pontiac are targeting different audiences.

Nickv · #**320** 12-17-2004, 11:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by racerboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Slower than which imports <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here are a couple of faster imports:

2004 Porsche 911 Turbo (12.31 ET)
2004 Porsche 911 GT3 (12.48 ET)

Though I'm sure that Porsche and Pontiac are targeting different audiences. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, ok..