[brians]

Ran that one on Ebay - RA1 price plus $15.
Got a real soft spot for a black RA 4sp car. I was not knee deep in projects; I would make him an offer.


The date of the changeover will always bug me until I see more info.
That 4/31/68 date confuses things. So far, it only shows up in the 6/5 dated sheet that Fastway showed and Cammer said he had.
.
Maybe that was an internal price change for Pontiac, but why is the earliest known notice to the dealers dated 5/7/68. If there was an earlier notice, why issue it again? Again, what if you ordered your car 5/6/68. What were you charged? Don’t think the dealer would eat the price difference. A $100 was a deceit chuck in 1968.

Anyone know any other original owner cars that were ordered? The only one I can verify is the Black RA1 I mentioned before. It took a little over 3 weeks from order to build. If that held true in May, then the May 20 build date may fit with a 4/31 order date?

Brian

[The Boss]

That black one is nice - no console either.

Looks easy to do.

[The Boss]

That black one is nice, looks easy to do.

(This not being able to edit means we can't delete things when we realize we look stupid too!)

[Cammer-6]

Heres the page 1 of that 4/29/68 price change notice
It was not uncommon to include some items previously changed
in with new ones.
look at some of the other dates on price changes.
I like the fact that they left the RA1 price in there and its struck thru.
Today I showed this to a friend of mine who was in GM engineering around that era
and he was surprised to see the reference to Ram Air 2 even in there.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Great to see page 1 of that bulletin with a Tempest (GTO) subtitled section. Just like page 2 has the Fbird subtitle section. Thanks for posting that up Cammer.

Originally Posted by brians

Maybe that was an internal price change for Pontiac, but why is the earliest known notice to the dealers dated 5/7/68. If there was an earlier notice, why issue it again? Again, what if you ordered your car 5/6/68. What were you charged? Don’t think the dealer would eat the price difference. A $100 was a deceit chuck in 1968.

Brian

It (pre-faced order) probably would have to go through Zone before the dealer could actually concrete a price for a customer during the first part of the Ram1/Ram2 transition period. At least if a smart well oiled sales manager was in place. I bet it did cause a few heated sales meetings at some dealers if they didn't pay close attention to those bulletins. $100 car money then, would be over $1000 car money now.

"If" I'm thinking right, the Zone office used a checks and balances type proceedure of their own (in tune with the actual plants and head office) before approving/submitting orders to a plant. They were to have contacted the dealer if a conflict in availability, option combinations, or pricing arose. If the mail took an extra day or two, a Ram1 priced order could have been sent back/declined.

But an overzealous salesman/mgr could easily put a foot in their own azz if they went too far on a sales contract in this time frame like you're saying. During normal business hours, probably just a phone call to Zone would have told them what price and what engine. If the dealer was in tune with all the bulletins.

Too bad we don't have a specific bulletin for Ram1 like the one for Ram2 that says no orders accepted by this Zone office after such-and-such date. Either the April 29 or the May 7 is going to be the most comprable document for Ram1.

Who wants to be the official dart thrower ? Not me.

I'm just going to be satisfied when actual BUILD DATE by cowl tag, production change gets narrowed down by documented examples.

P.S. Not exactly same situation but - the original owner of my 73 SD TA, put up $500 deposit on a 73 SD GTO order. Order was later returned by Zone. Dealer offered: #1 Refund - #2 put the $500 towards a non-SD GTO order - #3 SD TA or SD Formula order. He almost walked with his money, but settled on ordering a SD TA.

If they had sent/built him a non SD GTO - the dealer would have owned that Car. Pontiac family, his Dad had ordered a 63 SD Cat new.

Just using that to show how a dealer could get in a bind making their own judgement call on a paying customers behalf.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by The Boss

That black one is nice, looks easy to do.

(This not being able to edit means we can't delete things when we realize we look stupid too!)

Think it's on a one hour timer now. Not much time when a guy has a good buzz going, or working on one.

That auction was ended by the time I checked it out. If it had the right differential in place, not a very bad deal. Seller must have accepted an offer because the Buy It Now wasn't used to end it.

[bulletpruf]

Mike R - I think you're up next.

Scott

[brians]

Well not a Firebird, but the first RA2 GTO I’ve ever seen on Ebay.

Anybody know it, look at it, seen the PHS??
I thinking it is a mid JUne car from the Vin.

The dash tach looks like it has a 5500 red line? Something I’ve never seen even on a RA2 car.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ponti...spagenameZWDVW

[The Boss]

Yep, I've had two agreed deals on it, seller has backed off both times - part time member here too.

BVZ did the math for me on the PHS, it works out.

July 2, 1968 BHC.

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by brians

Well not a Firebird, but the first RA2 GTO I’ve ever seen on Ebay.

Anybody know it, look at it, seen the PHS??
I thinking it is a mid JUne car from the Vin.

The dash tach looks like it has a 5500 red line? Something I’ve never seen even on a RA2 car.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ponti...spagenameZWDVW

tach could have been easy to do
Sprint face V-8 guts.

Wonder what the build sheet(if found) says for instrument cluster code.

[68pongto]

Yeah, I had been dealing with Vernon since early December on the car too! I guess he figured ebay was the only way to go?

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by 68pongto

Yeah, I had been dealing with Vernon since early December on the car too! I guess he figured ebay was the only way to go?

You must be Scott.

There is at least a third guy who it was offered to, maybe more.

The body presents a few questions - I was planning on pulling the heater box if/when I got there.

[68pongto]

Originally Posted by The Boss

You must be Scott.

There is at least a third guy who it was offered to, maybe more.

The body presents a few questions - I was planning on pulling the heater box if/when I got there.

I guess you're the Chris he talked about? Appparently he talked to a few people about the car? I assume you're talking about a partial VIN under the heater box? I have never seen one on a 68, 69's are the first ones I have seen them on. Scott

[68pongto]

The Ram Air II went for 30k! That's a lot of money for a car that needs at least a 45k restoration/missing drivetrain. I guess some people have more money than sense? Scott

[brians]

Wow! I know these are valuable, but even I would not have guessed that one. I put my bid in the last minute and it did not even except it as it had already shot higher.

I was thinking it’s value done nice was about 60-65K with non matching block as there has been several very nice non Judge, non matching block RAIV ‘69 GTO’s sold in the 60’s range over the last year. (Plus I figured the int. color would be a deterrent).

Maybe I’m wrong? Have not been able to get a good reading on the 68 RA values. Have not seen any sold publicly or auctioned. Any one know of any very nice original or restored RA2 or even RA1 GTO/Firebirds sold in the past year and what they went for?

Brian

[68pongto]

That is what I estimated its value at too, 60-70k non-numbers matching. That RA II needs everything too. 100k+ for numbers matching, let's hope the new buyer doesn't suddenly 'find' the original block and rear end? Scott

[The Boss]

I think the new owner is a member here, if so PM me I can connect you to all of the parts it needs.

The car went easily for 10k more than I felt it was worth, and it's finished value is still unknown. Although every bit as powerful and even more rare than the 69/70's, the 68 RA cars are worth less. Another member here & I talked at length about this car this week and pegged it's value along with a RA III Judge.

Non matching, difficult and expensive parts to find, and then throw a body on it - that's assuming the body on it is the one it was built with.

[The Boss]

Here's the math on the options - thanks for checking it for me BVZ.

1968 GTO Ram2 4spd
Voodoo Green / Gold Buckets
Billing date : July 2, 1968


347 Ram Air .................................. blank
358 4spd Close..............................184.31
361 STT HD Posi ............................63.19
37S 4.33 axle ..................................n/c
382 AM Pbtn / man Ant ...................61.09
444 Rally Gauges & Tach..................84.26
453 Rally II ...................................84.26
521 Frt Disc Brakes ........................63.19
621 Ride & Handle ...........................4.21
71P/72C (PC) G70 Reds ...................n/c
742 Operation code for seatbelts.......n/c
754 Frt Shldr Belts .........................n/c

Options total ...............................544.51
Destination ...................................68.50
Base price .................................3101.00

Subtotal ...................................3714.01

Ram Air II ...................................473.94

Total ........................................4187.95
==================================
Label Price ................................4187.95


The good news here - I'd be willing to bet we'll see a couple of more of these pop up in the next year or two!

[68pongto]

Yeah good news, bad news! Maybe some more cars will surface, bad news everyone will think their basketcase is worth 30k! Scott

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I ran the numbers on this one about 6 months or more ago. This is the one that we thought some canadians had found in alaska.

Had to have been Irishmen who were bidding those numbers.
Its a St.Patricks Day parade car from hell and back. Then 364 days of Ugly.

A lot of people would have liked to been in it for 10 or so. I thought 15-20 was high end of actual, 30 might have been a tad hyper. But when you have the money and you want it, what else can you do.

Very sorry for you Chris and Scott. He might call you guys and see if you want to outbid the auction before he lets it go. oops i didnt say that lol