[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

If you do not have a positive piston stop. You can make one from an old spark plug and some all thread. I have degree a few cams where the engine was in the car using this one.

Stan

That stop looks easy to make. Thanks.

[TAQuest]

Can anyone think of a reason someone would intentional have the timing chain set this far off from the dots? See picture below.

[TAQuest]

Use this link for the picture of the dots off;

Originally Posted by TAQuest

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0zp0...r_Township,_MI

[promptcritical]

Because that’s where the cam timed the way they wanted?

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by promptcritical

Because that’s where the cam timed the way they wanted?

Is that possible? or How is that possible?
Just wanting to know why lining up the dots made it run worse.
There has to be some logic behind it.

[pastry_chef]

Real simple, indexing is off.

[Formulajones]

It's why degreeing these things is important these days. I haven't had one yet that was dot to dot and came out to where the cam card wanted it to be, let alone where I wanted it to be. They have always been off a few degrees, some worse than others. It's why I like the 9 keyway sets so I can move things around and find one that works. The 3 keyways just don't give enough options.

It's very likely that it was where it was because they degreed the cam and put it on an ICL they wanted. It's why I mentioned before that pulling the cover you may not find anything wrong, since finding that the dots may not line up exactly isn't going to tell the whole story without checking things with a degree wheel.

You also have to make sure that when you line up the dots at either 12 and 6 or 12 and 12 that the #1 piston is on the compression stroke before you drop the distributor back in and phase it with #1 wire.

[johnta1]

How did you redo the cam timing to line up the dots this time?
Take the cam gear off and chain?
Leave the crank gear on the snout?

The dot that needs lined up is the dot on the crank gear, not the dot at the keyway.

Take a ruler and put it so theedge goes through the center of the cam snout down through the center of the crank snout. The dots should be in that line.

In your pic posted you need to get the crank gear dot straight up and see where the cam gear dot is.

The crank is the main focus. It has to be straight up (the dot).
Then the cam is rotated to make its dot in line to the the crank gear dot.
(without the chain on it)

Then the chain and cam gear can be put on. Should still be lined up.





I'd like to see a pic as it is now, not what it was.

[TAQuest]

What I did was roll the crank so the dot was up. Took off the set. Put the gears back on without the chain. Pried the cam gear that little bit until the dot was straight down at the bottom. Took the gears back off. Put the whole set back on. The dots lined up perfectly then. I put it all back together. I didn't take out the distributor. The rotor was close to where it was needing to be so I turned the distributor to time it. Moved it in both directions in small increments and it wouldn't run right anywhere in the range. Would not time. Acted like it was a tooth off. Before I took it apart it idled good. Ran good up to 3200 rpm.

I'll have the picture of it lined up again tomorrow when I take it back apart.

I would like to understand why they didn't line up the dots if there is some logic to it.

I would like to figure out what is wrong with the engine that made it run like that in the first place.

Seems like I need to know those two things to be sure of the direction to go with it.

[ta man]

What did you reset the timing to? I'm assuming the dots are lined up correctly..it may be as simple as the timing off or wires swapped around. Don't give up ..we all have been there. Its highly unlikely that straight up dot to dot..is wrong...unless for some reason the cam was ground wrong or for some reason the timing set is marked wrong..its going to be something simple.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by ta man

What did you reset the timing to? I'm assuming the dots are lined up correctly..it may be as simple as the timing off or wires swapped around. Don't give up ..we all have been there. Its highly unlikely that straight up dot to dot..is wrong...unless for some reason the cam was ground wrong or for some reason the timing set is marked wrong..its going to be something simple.

As you can imagine I tried the timing every which way. I was expecting a normal start up like after a normal timing chain swap. Nope. It sputtered like the timing chain is off a tooth. I looked at the wires and they are right. Even did it all over again at 180 degrees just to try that. Wouldn't even start.

I'm convinced the thing runs better with the dots not lined up.

I'll get a clear picture of the set installed tomorrow. Maybe that will shred some light.

[grivera]

You need the instructions to the timing chain set you're using - otherwise you're pissing in the wind. Reading your posts you obviously have great mechanical ability so no reason you can't buy a degree kit and degree in the cam. As stated before- get the right cam for that engine so none of this is a waste of time.

[pastry_chef]

No timing light?

[johnta1]

I didn't take out the distributor. The rotor was close to where it was needing to be so I turned the distributor to time it. Moved it in both directions in small increments and it wouldn't run right anywhere in the range.

Need to put a timing light on it?
If you didn't take the distributor out, the distributor timing would be off like 30/40 degrees. You are probably firing off the next cylinder in firing order, or one behind.

Put the damper timing mark at the 10º mark on cover and take cap off.
The rotor should be pointing at #1 post of cap.
(or #6 depends on where the crank mark is)
If it's off, the timing is off. (distributor timing not cam)

[johnta1]

BTW, without going through all the posts, what distributor do you have?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

OK, so what does everyone one think that this group of parts should have for CR?

If the cam in the engine is the Edelbrock listed in the specs. Then 215 psi cranking compression CR would be about 10.7:1. With 190 psi cranking compression CR would be about 9.7:1.

What do you have your initial ignition timing set at?

Stan

I asked this in post #298 and never got an answer.

Stan

[TedRamAirII]

If you KNOW the cam timing is correct now.....go after the Dist timing and verify it.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

I asked this in post #298 and never got an answer.

Stan

I don't use a timing light. Always have timed by ear.

Bring up the timing mark so it's on the scale. Point the rotor at 1. You are either on or 180 out. Fine tune it by how it runs. How it starts. How it test drives. Always has worked for me. Pretty basic.

[ta man]

Does your rotor point at either 1 or 6 when it's on the timing tab now?

I have a relative that's really good at building cars..has built many from the ground up. He also sets his timing by feel. He does good most of the time but every now and then I need to help him.
My sons car had a weak starter so my father inlaw thought it it had too much timing and backed it off so it would start easier.Saw my son a day later he said his car was running like crap. Once I found out what happened ..stuck the timing gun on it and found only 4 degrees inital..where normally it was at 18..huge difference.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by ta man

So if you set the engine at 10 degrees on the timing tab is the rotor currently pointing at 1 or 6?

I'm on compression stroke and the rotor is pointing at 1. It will start and sputter, almost idle. That's the best I can get it. I tried it in the range and that's the best.
Before I moved the dots it idled good. Which tells me I went in the wrong direction by lining up the dots.