[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by goatman65

I want the Royal plate on your 68.lol.
Is that an original from 'back in the day'?

My word whatever are you talking about? Why would anyone ever want some old front plate? A plate that most people did not even notice when it was on the front of test cars even when they were a magazine cover back in the day.

You'll have to look closely at the back cover of the 1968 Royal Pontiac Catalogue on the bottom you will see two '68 GTOs. They both have the Royal Pontiac front license plate and frame on them.

Also look closely and you will see the front plate on both my '68 GTO and Firebird "Black Bird" as they flank Jim Wangers '69 Judge.

Heck, enlarge the photo next to my name. The black bird has one on it at the strip. It was on a magazine and in a few books with that plate on it. Early on I first had a personalized plate 1BLKBRD then I had a 1968 Manufactures (M) plate on the car which required a front and rear plate. The GTO having a 1968 Dealer (D) plate only required the rear plate. That is why some of the Pontiac from Royal had two plates and others had only one.

The factores used to and still do use regular Michigan plates. In the old days they used to be creative and get the first two then later first three letters GM, CH or CHY and FD. Now it is just non discript plates.
LOL

[SD421]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

My word whatever are you talking about? Why would anyone ever want some old front plate? A plate that most people did not even notice when it was on the front of test cars even when they were a magazine cover back in the day.

You'll have to look closely at the back cover of the 1968 Royal Pontiac Catalogue on the bottom you will see two '68 GTOs. They both have the Royal Pontiac front license plate and frame on them.

Also look closely and you will see the front plate on both my '68 GTO and Firebird "Black Bird" as they flank Jim Wangers '69 Judge.

Heck, enlarge the photo next to my name. The black bird has one on it at the strip. It was on a magazine and in a few books with that plate on it. Early on I first had a personalized plate 1BLKBRD then I had a 1968 Manufactures (M) plate on the car which required a front and rear plate. The GTO having a 1968 Dealer (D) plate only required the rear plate. That is why some of the Pontiac from Royal had two plates and others had only one.

The factores used to and still do use regular Michigan plates. In the old days they used to be creative and get the first two then later first three letters GM, CH or CHY and FD. Now it is just non discript plates.
LOL

This must be the cover shot Milt talks about in his book, where he backed the Bird up while the tide went out. He's laying down inside the front seat. Wonder why they lost oil pressure during the testing.

Don

[muscle_collector]

did you know bill knafel personally?

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

did you know bill knafel personally?

Sorry, I was only introduced to him by Jim Wangers at Norwalk several year ago when he was driven by Jim's tent.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

did you know bill knafel personally?

While I was only introduced to Mr. Knafel I do have the 1966 Drag Strip Tin Indian promo kit that was sent to all the top drag strips around the country.

I'm only going to attach a part of the contract and narrowed the page so some things are cut off. That is because I'm sure there is going to be some 'Judge" guy that likes selling bogus "Ace Wilson" stuff on ebay, in Hemmings and other places. Who will try to duplicate this stuff to without authorization. Isn't that right, Robert!

Don,
Notice that the TIn Indian team was also a 1966 National Champion with those heavy Hurst wheels.
Hurst was a sponsor of the Tin Indian Team too.

[SD421]

Originally Posted by SD421

This must be the cover shot Milt talks about in his book, where he backed the Bird up while the tide went out. He's laying down inside the front seat. Wonder why they lost oil pressure during the testing.

Don

Looked back thru Milt's book and he says the check ball in the oil pump got stuck.
I should probably look next time I ask a question. lol
Don

[brut4s]

Dr. Schiffer, Mr. Seymore and others that were there I really appreciate you all for taking the time to tell your stories about what happened during this time Things those of us that weren't in Michigan would'nt know.Was any testing or any mule cars running around in California or other states? Or was everything done in Michigan.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by brut4s

Dr. Schiffer, Mr. Seymore and others that were there I really appreciate you all for taking the time to tell your stories about what happened during this time Things those of us that weren't in Michigan would'nt know.Was any testing or any mule cars running around in California or other states? Or was everything done in Michigan.

Boy, you are really trying to open a can of worms! LOL Did you ever hear of a guy by the name of Mickey Thompson? Ever wonder why he had all of those Pontiac "Experimental" parts on his cars? Did you ever think about where Mickey had had his Pontiac Hemi Heads cast? He didn't own a foundry.

Than why did Mickey Thompson switch to Ford in the early '70's? Mickey was good friends with Semon "Bunkie" Knudsen. Knudsen left GM to become President of Ford Motor Co. Just like Bunkie got Smokey and Nicklas involved with Pontiac he supplied Mickey with a lot of Hi PO stuff out the back door of GM. Do you really beleive that Mickey out lined his four engine stream liner on his floor and got lucky with the cars stablility and cutting through the air on the salt flats?

Food for thought...wouldn't you say.

When I get home I'll post a close up of the ROYAL 1962 Tempsest cpe. When I do look closely at the names on the front fender and who is driving it.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Boy, you are really trying to open a can of worms! LOL Did you ever hear of a guy by the name of Mickey Thompson? Ever wonder why he had all of those Pontiac "Experimental" parts on his cars? Did you ever think about where Mickey had had his Pontiac Hemi Heads cast? He didn't own a foundry.

Than why did Mickey Thompson switch to Ford in the early '70's? Mickey was good friends with Semon "Bunkie" Knudsen. Knudsen left GM to become President of Ford Motor Co. Just like Bunkie got Smokey and Nicklas involved with Pontiac he supplied Mickey with a lot of Hi PO stuff out the back door of GM. Do you really beleive that Mickey out lined his four engine stream liner on his floor and got lucky with the cars stablility and cutting through the air on the salt flats?

Food for thought...wouldn't you say.

When I get home I'll post a close up of the ROYAL 1962 Tempsest cpe. When I do look closely at the names on the front fender and who is driving it.

Here are a couple of pictures of Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac 1962 Tempest driven by some guy from out West. His name in on the front fender where it say's "PREPARED BY"

If you can't read the fender read the text just above the car.

If you can't read that..LOL It says: PREPARED BY Mickey Thompson and Ace Wilson.

Mickey Thompson also drove the car at the Nationals and is here beating the TASCA Ford entry in A/FX.

[SD421]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Here are a couple of pictures of Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac 1962 Tempest driven by some guy from out West. His name in on the front fender where it say's "PREPARED BY"

If you can't read the fender read the text just above the car.

If you can't read that..LOL It says: PREPARED BY Mickey Thompson and Ace Wilson.

Mickey Thompson also drove the car at the Nationals and is here beating the TASCA Ford entry in A/FX.

So Mickey was fielding the Royal Tempest and the Yorktown Blue 1962 Tempest at the same time?

Don

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by SD421

So Mickey was fielding the Royal Tempest and the Yorktown Blue 1962 Tempest at the same time?

Don

Don,
When ever I've asked Jim Wangers about the '62 Tempest all he would tell me is that Royal sponsored the car and different engineers would drive it.

That's all I can tell you.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by brut4s

Dr. Schiffer, Mr. Seymore and others that were there I really appreciate you all for taking the time to tell your stories about what happened during this time Things those of us that weren't in Michigan would'nt know.Was any testing or any mule cars running around in California or other states? Or was everything done in Michigan.

Really Keith can best answer this because he works in GM engineering right know. But GM has a had a test track in AZ for years. I posted a 1974 Trans Am for Gregg a past GM engineer a few pages back. If you read about his car he tells you that he did some hot weather testing in AZ.

The 1969 Trans Am and Judge had their press release in California. Many magazines tested these cars on the east and west coast. Marty Shorr editor of "Cars" magazine would take the Royal cars not only to the strip, but go to the local drive-ins and even go street racing with them. Then he'd write about it.

I can't remember where the cold weather testing was or is. I just don't remeber. Several years ago one of my pateints, Grant Kitchen, who was a PMD engine engineer, used to do the cold weather testing every year.

For years guys who worked for Jim Wangers' company, Automotive Marketing Consultants, Inc (AMCI) would drive early production cars from Detroit to San Diego. For proper evaluation AMCI set a standard of 3,000 miles on the cars before any testing was done. In late June 1997 my wife, I and another couple took two brand new early production, not yet relesed cars out to California for Jim company to test and evaluate. A 1998 Monte Carlo with vin number 4 and a Lumina with vin number 7. We also watched AMCI do some testing of a new Mercedes with Monroe shocks on it at Carlsbad race way. Most of the evaluation and certification was to varify things that may be said or go into print in advertizing the cars. Then the mfg had testing and evaluation certificates from AMCI to back up their claims about the car.

Look closely at that very small print in a TV ad. It just might say, "As certified by AMCI".

At lunch today I passed a group of cars with black tap all over them going the opposite direction from me. I could not tell what mfg they where even by the shape. Of course all of these small cars look alike to me..LOL

Every other Thursday I take I -96 past the GM Proving Grounds as I go to an assisted living facility. On occasion I'll be paralleling some car or truck with a new name on it and I have no idea what this new model is. I will also on occasion pass Ken Lingenfelter going in the opposite direction driving one of of his many one off's.

I do have picture of some of Ken's cars. Including his different variations of Firebirds made off the current Camaro. Let me know if you want to see those too

So. Yes there are mules criss crossing globe all of the time.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

I can't remember where the cold weather testing was or is. I just don't remeber. Several years ago one of my pateints, Grant Kitchen, who was a PMD engine engineer, used to do the cold weather testing every year.

Kapuskasing, Cahnada, eh.



I try to avoid going there as much as I can.

I was at the DPG for four years. Two of my daughters were born while we were out there. Best time of my life.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Kapuskasing, Cahnada, eh.



I try to avoid going there as much as I can.

I was at the DPG for four years. Two of my daughters were born while we were out there. Best time of my life.

Keith,
I see the temperature is so low it's looks like the thermometer is broken. What does it say 70 below zero. Is that celcius or farenheit?

Say why isn't any one of the Volts plugged in? Not a long enough extension cord?

How old is your business card from the proving grounds? It still has area code (313).

Hope everything is going well with the move. Maybe we'll see you on Saturday. We could always ask Darwin Clark to pick you up as he comes down from Grand Blanc.

See you soon

Eric

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Keith,
I see the temperature is so low it's looks like the thermometer is broken. What does it say 70 below zero. Is that celcius or farenheit?

Say why isn't any one of the Volts plugged in? Not a long enough extension cord?

How old is your business card from the proving grounds? It still has area code (313).

Hope everything is going well with the move. Maybe we'll see you on Saturday. We could always ask Darwin Clark to pick you up as he comes down from Grand Blanc.

See you soon

Eric

I was at Milford from '86 to '89, so the area code must have changed some time after that...

K

[brut4s]

LOL!! Yes i've heard of Mickey Thompson, but not a lot of what he did with Pontiac. I've heard about the Pontiac Hemi heads,manifolds but that's about it. I know he was involved with all types of racing. I didn't know how much he was involved with Pontiac.

[65WJ]

this is the best book I have read in a long time.
thanks guys, keep the stories coming.

patrick

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

I'm not going to attach the entire packet. But here are a few more pictures.

Arlen sure has gained a few pounds over the years. Look back at the picture I took of Arlen by Jim Wanges' Judge when I had it at the Detroit Autorama in the late 1990's

[SD421]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

I'm not going to attach the entire packet. But here are a few more pictures.

Arlen sure has gained a few pounds over the years. Look back at the picture I took of Arlen by Jim Wanges' Judge when I had it at the Detroit Autorama in the late 1990's

So this the the GTO that was recovered by Merle Green?? I see two 66' GTO drag cars on your previous post.

Thanks again Doc!!

Don

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

I'm not going to attach the entire packet. But here are a few more pictures.

Arlen sure has gained a few pounds over the years. Look back at the picture I took of Arlen by Jim Wanges' Judge when I had it at the Detroit Autorama in the late 1990's

I noticed in the photos on post #349 that the 389 valve covers are both turned with the 'pyramids' to the rear....Do that around here you'll get called out on it pretty quickly as having the passenger's side cover on backwards.
Never did hear what those 'pyramids' were for...