[bluebird455]

It sure looks nice, and it's Pure Stock Racing history sure make it appealing.

[Larry Navarro]

Hey gang, I'm posting here since there seems to be a majority of folks who own or have owned SD trans ams that have been restored.
My question revolves around the costs of quality paint work.
It has been suggested to me that prices between $20-30K for show quality finishes are not uncommon.
Is this type of figure including body work where the sheet metal is replaced because of rot or damage from a wreck?
I can't seem to fathom that a car which retains original, rust-free sheet metal needing minimal prep would justify the noted figures.
I'm very familiar with paint & body work as I have painted three vehicles in the last 25 yrs, two of which garnered an "editors choice" and 1st place at Super Chevy events.
My most recent was a '78 trans am that I performed a complete color change from artic white to admiralty blue. This car had a straight body but needed a lower patch panel at the rear quarter.
Although this car wasn't intended to be a show piece, I performed the work as if it were, since I planned on selling the vehicle anyway.
I spent about 60 hrs labor in prepping the body and painted the car in my "spray booth" just as I have done in the past with the show cars previously mentioned.
Folks down here in Houston are familiar with my work so there's no denying what I describe in this post.
I only mention this just so folks who reply to this thread are aware that I'm not totally out of touch (or maybe I am) with paint & body services.
So again, Is this type of figure including body work where the sheet metal is replaced because of rot or damage from a wreck? Were the cars a "basket case"?

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

It has been suggested to me that prices between $20-30K for show quality finishes are not uncommon.

Yep!

[njsteve]

Larry,
Sadly a lot of the costs (in my experience) were due to the car(s) being sentenced to "body shop prison" where a car that seemingly needs little, was nickle and dimed by the hour, year after year like the bodyman was my salaried employee. There was over 50k into the body on the 72 T/A and you all witnessed what it needed and what it went through.

You may be able to get it done with a large percentage of your own sweat equity since are experienced at body/paint work. Also keep in mind how expensive paint and material have become. Even with all your work, I still think you're looking at $15-20k.

Are you going to strip off the existing finish? That's a bunch of labor hours right there. The real major labor involved is the difference in the body when it comes to dead-on straightness and panel gap from panel to panel. You can spend months just block sanding to get the body lines perfect. A major body faux pas on these cars is the subtle lower body line that a lot of the "get 'er done" body guys with no F body experience, completely eradicate when they bondo over it and make it flat.

Paint it in single stage. Dont do a clear coat- I like the original type finish where the car shines but is not super glossy like a modern car.

You are painting it for me, right? :-)

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by njsteve

Larry,

Paint it in single stage. Dont do a clear coat- I like the original type finish where the car shines but is not super glossy like a modern car.

You are painting it for me, right? :-)

No offense to Steve, but this is bad advice. You can do a 2 stage or 3, with some gloss reducing additives to emulate Lacquer. I had to do this on a 68 Camaro all original car. Most people pay for paint, they want shine, but obviously thats not original, really. Also the panels on our cars did NOT fit well from the factory.
I would stay Away from single stage ( cant repair well at all)
and also stay away from the "cheap" or repair panel base clear coats ( omni coat )
DO not EVER use a WATER born paint. I know its normal in California, but its sucks, its not durrable.
Im sure you have looked at the Paint options, Larry.
A stripped out shell, that needs a quarter patch, and a complete paint strip, and jam, and blocking etc and a "loose assemble" after paint is 15K around here and will get you a number #2 job, orange peel sanded out and buffed.
Things that make your body/paint expenses go UP
1. interior or any dissasembly of it
2. Car in a million pieces at arrival
3. any lights, chrome etc on the car, One MUST take the car apart ( better for the bolts etc too)
Cut costs more? Strip the roof, trunk, INSIDE the trunk, do your own inners, Jam your own car and have them paint car with sponges , if assembled ( not show cars)
$ 450 bucks a day is the norm ,not including supplies and "body shops" HATE assembly, so dont pay them to do it..
my 2 cents based on alot of experience with body shops, and I worked at one too.
what paint do I like? Matin Senour Tech base system ( Sherwin Williams, or Napa)
PPG epoxy is hard to beat.. under it , Not dishing the Dupont ... or HOC..
rant off back to finding car parts..

[Larry Navarro]

Boy I think these shops are taking customers for a ride.
I'm beginning to think I should give up my day job and paint cars.

[njsteve]

Tell you what, you can paint my black car first for practice, and when its done, I'll leave it as a deposit on your red car. ;-)

[Larry Navarro]

No practice required.
Besides, I want an LS6 car.

[Larry Navarro]

In the past, I've had great results with PPG acrylic enamel "DAU" with "DXR" hardener. Good stuff and lays down well.
I used Sherwin 2-stage on '78 t/a. I wouldn't hesitate to use it again.

[njsteve]

No offense taken. Im a fan of the old school look.

So if you used Martin Senour with a gloss reducer would that then be called a "Martin Sheen"?

;-p

[Norwood]

Don't ever Mop and Glow a muscle car......it just ain't right

[Judge273]

I'd rather have a professional paint on a muscle car then "cellulite". Fat paint sucks.....

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Judge273

I'd rather have a professional paint on a muscle car then "cellulite". Fat paint sucks.....

thats sure true ..

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

40 hours labor to repaint reasonably clean exterior with basecoat clear / wet sand the flat areas and buff. Start to finish. Plus materials. About 2000-2300 total.

Would add another 5 hours for aggrevation/set-up time on painting all the TA related items off the car (spoilers valance flares scoop all removed by owner)

Another 8 hours to wet sand/buff both sides and any miscellaneous pieces.
(aka full show quality at delivery)

No stripping.
No priming.
No blocking.
No body repairs.
No jamb painting.
No Removals or Replacings.

^ all additional

Those other big numbers represent a lot more than repainting a clean car in one piece. Or i should move to Texas

[njsteve]

I had an extra 5 years of aggravation on my last paint job! :-)

[sd455hota]

You guys make a lot of excellent points. It's hard to believe how much time can be used for a quality job. A 74 TA for example, besides the main body shell, has three dozen parts that need to be addressed with a true "painted apart" type of job. Then when I ask "how's your door bushings or body bushings" and the customer says they would like to replace them because 9 times out of ten they need replacing, it eliminates every shim and adjustment in the car when it came in. We're looking at a complete refit for gaps. We also have a pile of fasteners with the car apart and reattached to new paint makes them look pretty bad. That adds the cost of refinishing. Another big adder is paint/materials. Quality products have gone up drastically in the last couple years.

[bluebird455]

That's a lot of mula! I guess am never painting mine, just keep it as a driver and enjoy.

[njsteve]

Right. That's why I did the trunk drop offs on my car, myself - replacing the handmade ones with a new reproduction set. I had an estimate of $8000 from the restoration guy. I signed up for the Votech body shop course at my local high school and spent $400 for tuition. I got to use their full shop and all materials for one night a week for 12 weeks and did the job myself. And I am quite happy with the result and it didn't damage the NOS quarters that were installed back in the early 80's.

Too bad I cant paint the car there - everything you do has to leave at the end of the class each week. Hard to paint a car in three hours. :-)

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by njsteve

Right. That's why I did the trunk drop offs on my car, myself - replacing the handmade ones with a new reproduction set. I had an estimate of $8000 from the restoration guy. I signed up for the Votech body shop course at my local high school and spent $400 for tuition. I got to use their full shop and all materials for one night a week for 12 weeks and did the job myself. And I am quite happy with the result and it didn't damage the NOS quarters that were installed back in the early 80's.

Too bad I cant paint the car there - everything you do has to leave at the end of the class each week. Hard to paint a car in three hours. :-)

Serious Q. What & where are the trunk drop offs?

[njsteve]

Very good question!

I know I may sound a little like Cliff Clavin here but...as a matter of fact there Normy, the trunk drop off is the stamped, sheet metal panel that forms the port and starboard edges of the trunk and then drops down at a 90 degree angle to also form the interior sections of the lower parts of the rearward most portion of quarter panels. ;-)

Here's some of the process:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...t=drop&page=41

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...t=drop&page=43