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THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor. |
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#21
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IIRC. The Monte Carlo SS had 180hp and the GP 2+2 had 165hp.
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Current Pontiacs - 1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint 1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint 1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic 1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic 1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint 1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles |
#22
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The 2+2 was a one year only car. It had an LG4, 305 4 barrel 165 hp SBC. It had a 200R4 and a 3.08 7 1/2" axle. The Monte SS had the L69 305 HO 4 barrel 180 hp SBC with the similar 200R4 and a 7 5/8" 3.73 axle. The Monte SS came out in 1983 and was made for Chevrolet to win in NASCAR. They later came out with the Aero version in, I think 1986 -maybe 1988. In 1981, when the restyled Regal and Cutlass came out, they had a pretty efficient front end. They were very popular in those years. The Grand Prix had a more vertical grill and probably not as aerodynamic as its sister cars. I liked the front end of the 2+2 but did not care for the back end. I even owned one for a while. The one I liked the best was a GM design car, Burgundy with the 2+2 nose and the standard rear window. It did seem to have a GTA Firebird spoiler on the back. That car has been talked about on PY before.
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#23
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Their parameters exclude such icons as 1901-03 Curved-dash Olds, 1957 T-Birds, 1964/5 Mustangs or 1966 Toronado's, etc. Classic means a benchmark vehicle, not the most expensive barge offered for a given time. |
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#24
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Anything over 20 years old is technically a classic.
Rare is how many were made a certain way (this can be boiled down way too far) and that coupled with desirability raises value. It can be rare an undesirable and not be worth much. It can be desirable but in great supply and not be worth a lot. When the two of these intersect, Think RAIV bird. - yenko 427 - real cobra , GT40 , Ferrari Daytona - etc that’s when the price sky rockets. . These cars had a good reason for being built which helps but the drive train was kind of an anemic in street form unlike the Grand nationals. Or a turbo TA . Still kind of a cool car though
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Happiness is just a turbocharger away! 960 HP @ 11 psi, 9.70 at 146. Iron heads, iron stock 2 bolt block , stock crank, 9 years haven't even changed a spark plug! selling turbos and turbo related parts since 2005! |
#25
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These cars would be awesome if the rear glass had been a hatchback and the trunk been usable. As it is, the trunk is barely existent and it's got a wheezy 305. With some changes to the drivetrain (a 350P or 400P is great, the Buick turbo v6 would have been glorious) and a usable trunk\hatch area people would really like them. Buckets and console and full gauges in a cool looking car that had performance and utility to back it up? Hell yeah. As release? Eh...
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#26
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#27
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Great!
So a 2003 Ford Focus, a 2003 Chevy Cavalier and a 2003 Toyota Corolla are classics??? They may be eligible for collector plates, but they aren't classics by any common sense definition. |
#28
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As to excluding any TBird, Mustang or Toronado - none of them come close to my idea of a classic. I think what you are describing is a 'Milestone Car'. Both my '64 GTO and and the '49 Cadillac Series 75 are considered Milestone Cars. "There are 5 Criteria for acceptance of a car as a Certified Milestone Car. The model should be distinctive because of Styling, Engineering, Performance, Innovation, and/or Craftsmanship-relative to their contemporaries. A Blue Ribbon Panel reviews all cars/models nominated by a member in good standing." Milestone Society Cars include Fords, VW's, Toyotas, AMC's and most other car brands. http://milestonecarsociety.org/?page_id=9 |
#29
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"Common Sense" isn't very "common". |
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#30
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I think most would agree they are the epitome of classic. It has to be a sliding scale, changing with the times. After all, there was a time when C2 Corvettes were not considered "classic". In fact, in view of the fact that they were introduced in 1953, by this definition no Corvette would be considered "classic". K
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 Last edited by Keith Seymore; 10-30-2023 at 11:48 AM. |
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#31
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All of this proves to me that the term is subjective. The Classic Car Club of America has the right to define it according to their criteria for acceptance within their group and that's fine...but it's just that and no more. Their definition for their organization.
The biggest fault with their definition in my opinion is the fixed model years rather than a fixed minimum age and higher.
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Greg Reid Palmetto, Georgia |
#32
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All of this proves to me that the term is subjective. The Classic Car Club of America has the right to define it according to their criteria for acceptance within their group and that's fine...but it's just that and no more. Their definition for their organization.
The biggest fault with their definition in my opinion is the fixed model years rather than a fixed minimum age and higher.
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Greg Reid Palmetto, Georgia |
#33
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How does one acquire a blue ribbon to become an undisputed arbiter of what may be considered a classic?
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69 Judge, SURVIVOR, Carousel Red/Parchment, RAIII, 4-sp, 63k orig. miles, unrestored, #'s match 65 GTO, SURVIVOR, Tri-Power, 4-sp, 79k orig. miles, Capri Gold, orig. paint, top, interior, #'s match 70 GTO Conv, 400, at, A/C, Atoll Blue/Sandlewood/White top, all #'s match 2015 Challenger R/T Plus, hemi, Sublime Last edited by GTOnly70; 10-30-2023 at 03:26 PM. |
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#34
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How deflating it would be if someone invited you over to check out their ‘Z16 Chevy’ and the garage door unveils an 80s Monte Carlo and not a 65 SS 396/375 Chevelle?!?
They sure do like to recycle those RPOs |
#35
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Classic is in the eye of the beholder. I’m sure if I revealed my utter disdain for some “classic” rock songs, I would receive interesting responses.
To the original question, IMO, I would lean towards the 2+2 being a classic. Classic in the sense it was exceptionally limited in production, it’s look, and the reason it’s ( and the Monte’s ) tires ever saw the pavement. I cannot imagine GM, Ford, etc., today, building a car for the singular reason of making it some race sanctioning body eligible. In full disclosure, I thought they were stupid and ugly when first produced. I have changed, drastically on that feeling. Like Ed Tom once wisely articulated…age will flatten a man.
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costs too much |
#36
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I remember looking at a new one in the local GM dealer lot. The window sticker had only one extra cost option; The 2+2 package itself, which was five figures. |
#37
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There should be no cross between a 'classic' car and 'The Classic Car Club of America'. The CCCA has a clear definition of acceptable vehicles. Think Duesenburg, 12 cylinder cadillacs and packards, etc. Has nothing to do with other wise pedestrian vehicles.
What is a 'classic' car, I suppose its open to a lot interpretation. I guess the 2+2 could be a classic, and its rare but rarity does not always equal value. I have seen really nice examples for less than 20k. They are not for everyone but def. unique. There was a pretty nice one a few miles down the road from me for quite a few years. I was slightly interested for what it was. But was deep into a restoration. I watched as it slowly deteriorated until one day it was gone. Another example of one in my area, we stopped into a pawn shop as my son is always on the prowel for guitars. I got to talking with the owner and we ended up talking about his 2+2 that was a Richard Petty car. I figured 1. he didnt know what he was talking about, and 2. it was not a real race car. He then started showing me pics and documentation that it was indeed a legit Petty raced vehicle. |
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