[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 60sstuff

This is one COOL 65 GTO!

Great pics - THANK YOU - it still has the starter wire clip at bottom left valve cover bolt, fan caution decal, tower hose clamps and those rare firewall marks!

Also the small curved tip aluminum fan indicating the 3.55 rear axle.

Be super careful in preserving all the factory goodies on this car.

Thanks for sharing such an important rare find!

Agree, loadedgoat. Great car and thank you for humoring us by posting all this added detail.

K

[Option 382]

Early 65s used spring clamps, later 65s used the tower clamps. Late FEB into March is where the transition was (based on my research of original cars).

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Option 382

Early 65s used spring clamps, later 65s used the tower clamps. Late FEB into March is where the transition was (based on my research of original cars).

Thank you; makes sense.

I know the Ed Lis '65 has tower clamps, which was a March 1965 Kansas City build.

I can't comment based on my car, which now has worm style clamps.

K

[Zimtok]

It only has the one upper alternator bracket from the water pump.
When did they use the additional bracket from the thermostat housing?


.

[dld]

when P/S was installed.

[60sstuff]

Power Steering used the two braces.

[Zimtok]

I always learn more then I can remember on this forum....


.

[60sstuff]

The Factory Pinstripes on the Tiger Gold 65 in this thread and another Original paint 65 below look to have the crisp stripe applied by a Bueglar type ribbed wheel tool.

The above Gold 65, built at the Pontiac, MI. plant (06E) = wheel stripe
The Red 39,000 mile Pontiac, MI. built (06B) = wheel stripe

Keith Seymore's Pontiac, MI. built 65 stripes (3rd pic) look to be hand applied. I don't have Keith's 65 build date?

Maybe a switch was made to the wheel applied stripes later in 65 at the Pontiac plant?

Although the wheel stripes are cleaner, the old school way (by human hand) are unique and rare!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Seymore's Black 65 is 09_ something.
09/18/64 production date on building order.

[dld]

do a search we have been all over this.not to disparage new info

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

1. What does the O on the lower 1 group line of Fisher codes on Trim Tag designate ?
W = Softray Windshield
O = ?

Jolly Green Giant was special paint, but no O on tag , so guess its not about special paint.

Keith we would have gotten this instantly if we had been looking at a window sticker or looking at the actual car while pondering this ...

Vinyl Top Moldings / or 2-tone paint break moldings

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

2. Code 592
Best i can find is it means special order - so seems it would go towards the special paint.

But Keith Seymore's Black 65 GTO also has 592 - what is it on Seymore's GTO ?

It is the special paint on this particular instance.
Still looking at some other possibilities for other examples too. (with 592)

And there is a difference in billing-identification , and possibly accounting ($) , on Tiger Gold between 65 and 66 .
Same color (formulation) tho .

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Seymore's Black 65 is 09_ something.
09/18/64 production date on building order.

09 A

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Keith we would have gotten this instantly if we had been looking at a window sticker or looking at the actual car while pondering this ...

Vinyl Top Moldings / or 2-tone paint break moldings

LOL.

I guess sometimes we have to take our nose out of the paperwork....

[MH 1964]

I will look into my records over the weekend. I have a Tripower 65 gto that has this code and I think my 1966 Tripower Tiger Gold Convertible has the code both Pontiac build GTOs. Loadedgoat65 nice original GTO, my grandfather prep that car when it was new at RD Buick Pontiac in Tiffin Ohio. Knew the car its whole life, just was never stored good in the barn. Have photos of it in the barn if you ever need them!

[John V.]

BVZ, I know I've posted about Sales Code 592 before.

I'm as sure about it as I can be. Always open to discovering new evidence.

In the '64 Tempest Inspector's Guide, Sales Code 592 is listed as "Special Order Items".

Special Order Items were anything that was ordered by special written request and required a "Memo" approval in order to get built.

It was NOT used for Special Equipment options that were assigned a Sales Code. Special Equipment options were specific coded options that were NOT listed on the Regular Order Form but WERE available and ordered on a separate order form by specific Sales Code.

I've never found a copy of the separate form itself for '64, but I have a document that refers to "special order addenda, form 516 S.O." and I believe it was the form used to order things like Sales Code 692 Metallic Brakes, Sales Code 612 Handling Kit with Quick Ratio Steering Box, Sales Code 661 Heavy Duty Frame, and so on.

In '65, such options were listed on the "All Series Special Equipment" order form.

In '64, Sales Code 592 was triggered by any special order item that was requested by written instruction.

Such items included special color paint requests, front bench seat for a Lemans, standard Tempest hood for a GTO, insulation delete, etc.

Whenever such a written request was made, the PMD Sales Dept. reviewed the request and if approved, a Memo was generated to inform the Assembly Plant of the special request and the approval.

For '64, on Pontiac Plant builds, the retained PHS document always will show the approval Memo No. that was associated with the special item for a given order and the description of the item such as the name of the special paint color, or insulation delete, etc. Based on the Memo Nos. I've seen for '64, I believe the Pontiac Plant produced about 1000 cars that required a Memo for the '64 Model Year.

So it is very obvious what triggered the Sales Code 592 for the '64 Pontiac Plant builds.

Special Order Items may not have been so obviously noted on the other '64 A body plant records.

The cost of the item is unknown. Presumably the Memo also outlined the added dealer cost that was to be charged although some items may have been no charge.

Unfortunately, the '65 Billing History Cards lack the detail to explain the Sales Code 592.

But I am reasonably certain that the same practice was used for '65 as in '64.

Keith has probably forgotten but he and I have discussed the 592 for his car.

Since it is all but certain that the 592 was NOT triggered by any of the Special Equipment options that his car was built with (close ratio trans, metallic brakes, etc.) it is likely that there was a special item request included with the order for his car.

What that item might have been has yet to have been detected. This despite the fact that Keith found the Building Order sheet in his car. No mention of a Memo approval or Special Order Item despite the fact that it is coded for 592.

It might have been something as simple as that the car was to be delivered to the customer at the Plant. I don't know that this required a special order request, just speculating that it could be a possible reason.

In '65, you could request the pin stripe be deleted by written instruction. That might have triggered a 592.

Any '65 with a special order paint color should show 592.

In the case of Keith's car, whatever the reason for the 592, it is not obvious. But I am certain as I can be that it was not triggered by any option that has a Sales Code assigned to it.

I know that might not be a very satisfying answer. But it fits all the evidence I have seen.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by MH 1964

I will look into my records over the weekend. I have a Tripower 65 gto that has this code and I think my 1966 Tripower Tiger Gold Convertible has the code both Pontiac build GTOs. Loadedgoat65 nice original GTO, my grandfather prep that car when it was new at RD Buick Pontiac in Tiffin Ohio. Knew the car its whole life, just was never stored good in the barn. Have photos of it in the barn if you ever need them!

I sent you a PM and bumped your thread about your 1965 #592 option BHC.
All i want to know is if it has 77_8 or 61_2
But would ultimately appreciate it if you could post the BHC itself.

I did search on 592 and read all the previous threads already.
No one posted their BHC's ?

I can work the math backwards if i have the BHC , like we have to do for RamAir II cars. Might even find 1 with MISC AMOUNT entry.

I'm going to reverse the math on this 65 Tiger Gold just to find out the charge for the color. 65 and 66 were handled different and coded different , and possibly billed different amounts - if any amount.
65 is coded 2 and likely handled and full charged as Non-Pontiac color.
Keith's excerpt on special paint has flexibility.

If you could also share the BHC on the 66 Tiger Gold.
I have a Pontiac Mich build sheet/building order for a 66 Hardtop Tiger Gold - but not the BHC.
No 592 on my example and it even has a memo about stripes.
66 is coded 1 and likely handled charged as a special spring color would be - just for an example. Not calling it a spring color defacto

I would like to work the math backwards on the 66 file you have.

Thanks !

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by John V.

BVZ, I know I've posted about Sales Code 592 before.

I'm as sure about it as I can be. Always open to discovering new evidence.

I did a search in this section on 592 and read all i could find.
Never found a BHC posted though ?
Seems to only be 4 known 65 specimens, and only 2 have shared.

This Tiger Gold car - have it
Keith's Black Royal car - have it
MH's car
wmurrels car

Can tell you put as much into it as you could along the ways.
But don't think it has been fully exhausted yet.
Even after that - could still be same result - but interested in going the distance.

Have some likenesses and conflicts with them bouncing through 64 65 66 examples and would like to sort out if can get the data. Nothing that will change the world. Just interesting.

It might eventually give more insight if all four 65 files can be compiled , and more examples surface.

[John V.]

BVZ, be careful about extending what we know about '64 & '65 to '66.

Sales Code 592 was not Special Order Items in '66. That was Power Top in '66, I have no idea if they had a Sales Code for Special Order Items in '66.

I have records of at least 5 Sales Code 592 '64 builds that I can recall, Wangers Insulation delete GTO, the GTO with Tempest Hood, the Lemans with Bench Seat and two special paint color cars. All 5 show 592. All show the Memo designation. I have never found a '64 Manifest showing 592 that did not ALSO show a Memo.

Not sure how Special Color Paint was priced for '65. Later years, the add was different for a Hardtop vs. Convertible and there were Special Color Paints, Regular Colors and Special Color Paints, Special Colors, the latter were priced higher. IIRC, Spring Colors were "Regular". But might have been one price suits all in '65 (two tones were different).

According to Eric White's book, the SRP for Special Color Paint was $40.19 for '65. But the Billing History Card reflects the Dealer Cost not SRP, not sure what that would be. Will be interesting to see what the math tells you.

I underestimated the specials in the previous post, they were over Memo No. 1300 in June, so looks like closer to 1500 cars with Special Order Items in '64.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I understand the complexities of year versus year in case studies.
Main reason i would like to have all the 65 #592 cars on file.

On this 66 Pontiac Michigan Build Sheet , #592 is still Special Order

591 Speedo Adapt
592 Special Order
593 Export

Its just a generalized piece of paper and can cause trouble in the wrong hands.
Like where some have thought they had a Police option on a GTO.

I will share it --- AFTER --- these guys share some of their stuff.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by MH 1964

...my grandfather prep that car when it was new at RD Buick Pontiac in Tiffin Ohio.

That is incredible , and gives some nudge for further study.
So i did .... lol

Car is charged to 07-654
Which is an unknown dealer (as of now) in the 07 Michigan Zone.
The shipping amount is only $30.05 which would make it close to PMD
Not sure right now if that is enough to get it to Ohio.

The Shipped To - in lower ledger - the graph isn't punched - giving some impression it was shipped to that same dealer charged in Michigan.

BUT however the TO and FROM State Codes in lower ledger are punched on the graph.

TO = 34 = Ohio state code !
FROM = 21 = Michigan

The FROM is usually always the state of the build plant.
The explanations for this fiasco could be many educated speculations at best.
I could throw mine out there, but it takes more than i care to type right now.

Just pointing out that MH 1964's account of this car DOES hold water.
And what kind of things can be found out and documented when we have the BHC.
ahem

[John V.]

Hmmm, I think I was mistaken. Eric White's book shows 592 as Power Top for '66.

But that may be an error.

The '67 Building Order blank in his book shows 592 as "Special Ord. Chg." so I suspect your '66 example is correct and Eric's book is wrong.

'67 has Power Top as 544 (was 434 in '64 & '65). But Eric has '66 544 as "Delete All Tires (export only)". I wonder if that is wrong and 544 was Power Top in '66 also. What does your '66 Building Sheet form show for 544?

Looks like 592 was carried thru '68 as "Special Ord. Chg.", then in '69 592 was "Spec. Ord. N/C", 594 was "Special Trm. Chg." and 595 was "Special Ord. Chg.". In other words, the special order items were coded with a little more specific detail.

I think I have four '65 Billing History Cards with 592, including Keith's.

One being Tiger Gold, the others nothing obvious as a Special Order Item.

One is a Slatemist Blue GTO, not sure whose car that one is.

Hopefully, the guys with 592 cars will post what they know about them and what they might have gotten as a Special Order Item.