For all the haters - Page 2 - PY Online Forums

Mr_GTO · #1 11-26-2004, 02:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by TheWho:
but from the outside, the new Grand Prix looks a lot better then GTO,. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It looks better because it is a 4 door with a longer wheel base. The GM Monaro has a stocky back end with small wheels, doesn't look good. Losing the spoiler would help. The 05 exhaust treatment is definately an improvement provided they don't go with the single fart can tuner treatment. I did see a Phantom black one with some nice after market wheels, rotors, calipers and no spoiler. Overall it was a nice looking car, certainly no GTO, but not bad. The new GTO should have graced every magazine cover, not just the occasional mention from a GM placement test drive evaluation. Hopefully they've learned something. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

17" rims are small? Have you not seen pictures of the 05 yet? Was the first GTO's so outstanding styling wise they are totally unique? I don't thinks so. You have too look close to make sure it is a Pontiac, and not a Chevelle or Olds. Although there isn't one US car made today that looks like a GTO. Yes it does look like many other European cars and some Japanese cars.

The GTO should have graced every mag cover? Why don you tell me which ones it DIDN'T grace.

RandyW · #2 12-05-2004, 07:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by humbler:
Man, who pissed in your cherios?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Nobody pissed in his cereal, he just hasn't been to mommie for his daily....

Mr_GTO · #3 11-26-2004, 05:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:

04 Pep Squad Math : 1 part Monaro + 1 part Chevy + 1 part Grand Am + 1 part Cavalier + 4 parts denial = 2004 GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What part is Chevy and Grand Am and Cavalier? denial is those who know that the new car is 100% than the old one in every way and they just don't want to face that fact.

Tell me, which bone stock GTO went 12.9 in the quarter before?

red70goat · #4 11-27-2004, 07:42 PM

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Tripower455 · #5 11-23-2004, 03:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
"they sold more in the last 2 months than all year"...compared to what? If you're looking at anticipated sales, volume vs. markdown, it's still pathetic. GMs Monaro would have done better under a different name than GTO. As a performance sedan it holds it's own. As a GTO it is a failure. The only ones that like this car are pre-pubescent tuners and they don't have the money to buy one anyways. Look for bigger spoilers, ricer air boxes and fart can exhausts on the 05 as options. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love the new GTO...... and I went through puberty in 1978.......

I personally don't care for the wing either, but (blasphemy!) I think that even a '69-'71 Judge looks better without one. Fortunately, it's easy to remove.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>GM is attempting to design a factory tuner and pass it off as a musclecar using an iconic name such as GTO. Trying to save a few bucks using a well-worn and boring fleet design didn't help either. Look at the 05 options and tell me I'm wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're wrong Joe. You do know that the new GTO is a V-8 (350 hp LS-1 for '04, 400 hp LS-2 for '05) rear wheel drive car, available with a manual trans with upscale interior and seating for 4 adults? Name another GM, Ford Chrysler, import etc that have these same "well worn" features in a new car, for anywhere near the same money.
It may look like a "tuner" car, but it has more in coommon with the old ones than differences, and almost all the differences are good ones. The only downside are the bland looks.

Tripower455 · #6 12-01-2004, 10:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
[QUOTE]

How many people have even heard of an obscure, dealer installed Tempest option called "The Jury"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have. Gee, I thought you people in the 2004 GM Monaro Glee Club were supposed to be experts on Pontiacs. Guess not. Oh and BTW, it was a LeMans, not a Tempest. Read my post. Go to Cars-On-Line.com and there are 2 of these for sale being advertised as 70 GTO's. Ultimategto.com has a seperate section for them as well. Given the # of people that try to sell these as GTOs is why I made the distinction of 1970 being the last desireable model year with the Endura Bumper only. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I may not be an expert, but I do know that the endura front end was not an option on the '70 GTO, which is more than I can say for you, Mr expert.

I've been messing with GTOs and Pontiacs for over 20 years, and have only heard very casual mention of the "The Jury", dealer installed option a few times. Nobody but you would be confused by it......

red70goat · #7 11-27-2004, 03:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What part is Chevy and Grand Am and Cavalier? denial is those who know that the new car is 100% than the old one in every way and they just don't want to face that fact.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This car looks like a Cavalier humping a GrandAm. Do your research: It's a Chevy motor. The GM Monaro is a better car than ANY car made 30-40 yrs. ago due to the fact it's a new car in the performance sedan arena. It's just no GT0 and never will be no matter what kind of spin GM puts on it. There is no arguing it's a worthy performance vehicle superior than what one could buy in a similar vehicle 3-4 decades ago. Slapping some badges on it doesn't make it a GTO. It's a Holden Monaro marketed and imported for Pontiac. This will all become all to clear at resale time.

gtohurstjudge · #8 11-21-2004, 07:04 PM

I am going to buy an 05 as a daily driver. I
doubt this car will ever be collectible, but
my 69 GTO convertible, 79 T/A and 2001 T/A has
those bases covered already. I work on cars for a living and drive all kinds of cars every day,
and the interior of the GTO is the nicest of anything GM makes bar none. It is not as pretty on the outside as my 69 GTO but what car made in the last 25 years is? The 4th gen firebird
was the last good looking 4 place car sold in America in my opinion. The build quality and nice interior features and the way the GTO drives make up a lot of ground in counteracting
the exterior styling. The 05 is going to look
better with a good looking hood and ram air....
and what about those 400 net horses? That car
will suck the doors off my 69 in a drag race
and get twice the gas mileage while it is doing it. Also...there were several years of GTO's
made in the first eleven year run that were not all that beautiful to look at. The 64 and 65
are too boxy and the 71, 72, 73 and 74 just don't cut it in the looks department in my opinion. If you don't like the new GTO you don't
have to buy it...this is a free country, but the
fact of the matter is, it is just as attractive as the vast majority of cars anyone else is selling, it goes like stink and has a nicer interior and build quality than any of them. I
think the biggest problem with sales in 04 is that they priced it a little too high, but if
they hold the line on price in 05 and give us
400 horses....what a bargain! GTOHURSTJUDGE

HUMBLER · #9 11-29-2004, 01:08 PM

I'd say #2 but looks like a kit car so I'll say #3 and #6.

Tripower455 · #10 12-02-2004, 08:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I do know that the endura front end was not an option on the '70 GTO, which is more than I can say for you, Mr expert.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who really gives a s#!t about the endura bumper? Isn't that just a lame way to take the subjuct on a tangent?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ask WhataMoron-o.........

red70goat · #11 11-28-2004, 08:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>...Read my post again moron. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was directed to the champ, was it not?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. Sorry..I should have specified that. BTW: I showed my nephew your webpage on your '65 as to what a clean text book build up on a vintage Goat should look like. He's got a '68. I narrowly prevented him from putting a sunroof on it!!!

David Jones · #12 11-21-2004, 06:31 AM

The public perception of this car has been poor at best. The general consensus being that Pontiac could have done better. Pontiac will spend the next few model years trying to overcome that. Hence the new hood scoops and the "Corvette" motor in the 05. Maybe they could also figure out a way to remove the fuel tank from the trunk. If Pontiac was hoping for a something to improve public perception of the brand, they were wide of the target. Positive comments on a Volkswagen forum will probably not have the powers that be at GM sleeping well. You have one? Enjoy it. Don't delude yourself into thinking this is a watershed moment in GM history.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>GET REAL <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good comeback...........

Respect · #13 11-20-2004, 07:20 PM

[QUOTE] [ posted November 20, 2004 07:56 PM
Yeah, you're right, the average American doesn't get it. Sales prove it

/QUOTE]
65 posts on a VW forum, almost all extremely positive. I think Pontiac has a halo car, which is all the GTO is about. Sales ARE secondary

red70goat · #14 11-27-2004, 08:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Inquisitor:
So who was the creative genius behind the 74 GTO...or do you consider that to be a "classic"...imagine if the GTO wasn't killed off back then and kept evolving along the the lines of the 74 model until the present day?
When you consider that, the 2004 model doesn't seem so bad after all.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I don't consider the 74 a "classic". I think '70 was the last good year for the GTO and only with the Endura Bumper option. I had a 66, 68, 70. Although your comparison with 74 & 04 is a good one: GM taking an ugly car, slapping a GTO badge on it and trying to market it as a GTO. History repeats itself.

red70goat · #15 11-24-2004, 02:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by humbler:
Damn, I said I wouldn't entertain...

A feature film, spots on TV, Cover of every major magazine, commercials, print ads, mention on most automotive shows. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You forgot "Pimp My Ride" and "Drifting" Competitions ( drifting???...that'a as weird as the AMC Pacer ) Can U Say : GM Product Placement? BTW: Name 2 MAJOR magazines ( Not Tuners R Us )

The Champ · #16 11-25-2004, 02:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
GM dropped it by nearly 10k and it still didn't sell. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did you go to school?

GM has a $3500.00 rebate on it. That's about $6500.00 short of $10,000.00 the last time I checked...

Your brilliance in posting as displayed on this board is only overshadowed by your abilities to add and subtract...

red70goat · #17 12-01-2004, 06:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
uhhh, yeah right. And I suppose you're going to tell us hideaways on the '69 were standard equipment also. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was standard equipment from 1968 - 1972, and only in 1968 could you delete if on a regular production order.

Maybe you should change your name on this board to _whatza GTO_ because it appears you know very little about them - old or new. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr. PHS: In 1970 a Pontiac dealership came up with the idea of offering a "Jury" model as a low buck alternative to the Judge. It had stripes, spoilers, etc. but no endura bumper.Pontiac later endorsed this a option for the '70 LeMans Pillar Sports Coupe. Many people try to sell these as GTO's. This is what I was referencing as 1970 being the last good year for the GTO and only as with the Endura Bumper. As far as my knowing little or nothing about the GTO: I know enough not to plunk down $30k on something that is really a Monaro in disguise. The 2004 GM Monaro will have the same legacy as the 1974 Ventura: GM attempting to market an ugly and undesirable car by attempting to mask it as a GTO. They should have retired the model in 1970 and given the GM Monaro an identity all its' own.

Respect · #18 11-19-2004, 10:55 PM

The average American just doesn't seem to get it

DELUDED

Respect · #19 11-20-2004, 08:58 PM

The advertising industry is a testament to the worth of investing in intangibles such as public perceptions of a brand. An ad compaign is a direct ioss to the bottom line, but ideally a net gain to a business. What ever the immediate financial gain/loss to GM, the volumes on the GTO were never going to produce more than what amounts to small change to GM.

GET REAL

The Champ · #20 11-30-2004, 10:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
uhhh, yeah right. And I suppose you're going to tell us hideaways on the '69 were standard equipment also. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would I try and say that option code 414 was standard equipment when it was a $52.66 additional cost option?

But if you think that the Endura front end was an extra cost option on any GTO, you are just plain wrong.

It was standard equipment from 1968 - 1972, and only in 1968 could you delete if on a regular production order.

Your continued denial of the truth only makes you look more and more foolish.

Maybe you should change your name on this board to whatza GTO because it appears you know very little about them - old or new.