[tom s]

Jon,does it lock out 5th also?If so I would like to find out the maker.Tom

[burch]

No, just reverse. It's built into the transmission.

Also, I've got a Fortes billet shifter and at least as far as I can tell by sitting in the seat, shifting it, and making vroom vroom noises, the 2-3 shift feels pretty positive. No idea how it will feel once everything is spinning though.

[tom s]

rev is not a problem,the 2nd to 3rd is the problem.Good luck with your project.Tom

[burch]

I picked up some anaerobic sealant on my way home from work tonight, and got the input bearing retainer swapped and the throwout bearing mounted:

[burch]

The clutch and flywheel finally arrived on Friday:





The pressure plate weighs a TON!





The flywheel is aluminum and weighs practically nothing:





Both the pressure plate and flywheel were fairly considerably out of balance. Enough so that my engine builder was surprised at the amount of weight that needed to be moved around to balance them. Makes me glad I went through the extra hassle of having them balanced.

At this point I'm just waiting on a clutch alignment tool, a new pilot bearing (I smashed the original one, oops), and the correct hydraulic line for the throwout bearing. I'm planning on bolting up the flywheel and dialing in the bellhousing tomorrow, depending on how lazy I feel.

I suppose it would also be nice if my headers would ever finish getting coated too. Can't go very far without them.

[burch]

I got the bellhousing dialed in today, and the flywheel bolted up.

I used Tavia offset dowel pins to index the bellhousing, as it was out about .015 with the factory dowels.

Getting the factory dowels out and the new dowels in was a major PITA. I did it last weekend but don't think I ever posted about it.

Basically, I welded bolts to the factory studs and used a large socket and a motley assortment of washers to draw them out (no room under the car to use a slide hammer dowel puller).

The Tavia pins have to be custom sanded to fit your block with about .0005 clearance--this took for friggin' ever with emery paper, but I got it done.

You also have to drill and tap holes in the side of the block for setscrews to keep the dowel pins from rotating--I used the jig Tavia sells to drill the holes (with an angle air drill). Didn't take too long at all and wasn't too much of a pain.

So, anyway, I got the bellhousing dialed in with .0015 (one and a half thousanths) of runout, which is well within the .005 limit the documentation I have says you need to shoot for. It only took three or four tries, and I pulled the bellhousing off then reinstalled it a couple of times to make sure things didn't move (they didn't, thank god).

At this point I'm just waiting for a clutch alignment tool (nobody local has one, so I ordered one from Summit) and then I'll be able to bolt everything up!

The block plate and flywheel all bolted up:



You can also see my roller pilot bearing, which I bought at NAPA after destroying the one Fortes sent me. It's Timken #7109 (the NAPA number is the same).

I also took a picture of the cool transmission jack I bought at Harbor Freight:



It rolls a LOT easier on those big castors than my floor jack does, and you raise/lower it with a 1/2" drive socket in the back. Cost something like $60, IIRC.

[burch]

Almost done!

I started out tonight by bolting up the clutch:



And the bellhousing:



And then proceeded to fight with the transmission for HOURS. Turns out there were two problems:

1. The Keisler throwout bearing was interfering with the transmission getting into the bellhousing. A little grinding solved this.

2. The damned $3 clutch alignment tool I bought from Summit has a pilot diameter .020 too small, so it didn't align the clutch properly.

Problem #2 caused me all sorts of trouble, and I eventually ended up pulling the input shaft out of the transmission to use as an alignment tool. Of course I managed to drop two of the needle bearings into the transmission case which took about an hour to fish out with a magnet.

But after all that nonsense was taken care of I reassembled the transmission and got everything bolted up:



I then bled the clutch, which really wasn't that difficult--the Keisler setup is self-bleeding, so you basically just pump the pedal (forever) until all the air has worked itself out.

Here's a (poor) picture of the throwout bearing through the inspection hole in the bellhousing:



I then proceeded to check the disengagement (after I convinced my wife to help), and wound up with more or less exactly .030" air gap on the clutch, which is what McLeod calls for with a diaphragm pressure plate. This is a huge load off my mind because I was very worried about the throwout bearing bottoming out or not having enough travel.

FWIW the clutch pedal is firm, but nothing outrageous.

I also got my headers back from the coaters today, so basically all I have to do at this point is bolt up the exhaust and I'm ready to rock! I can't wait to drive the car with the manual transmission.

[burch]

The shifter I have is Forte's "1969 Camaro/Firebird" shifter. I pieced my swap together rather than buying a complete kit from a place like Keisler or Classic Chevy.

Here's the factory drawing showing 3 out of 4 possible shifter locations (my shifter is actually slightly forward of the rearmost option). Dimensions in mm:



I don't know the official measurement for my shifter location--I crawled under the car and it appears to be about 18", but I can't say too much about the accuracy of that measurement becase I couldn't get the tape measure close to the shifter in the transmission tunnel.

I also don't know the exact part number for the handle but it is a Hurst handle.

[burch]

No. I still need to bolt up the exhaust, but I'll probably end up waiting until this weekend to get it out on the road.

I'm excited to see how it drives though so I may not be able to wait that long!

[burch]

Update: Wenesday, I went back out to the garage, pushed the clutch pedal twice, and was greeted by the tinkling noise of all of the brake fluid in the clutch hydraulic system POURING out of the throwout bearing.

Keisler has, so far, been completely unresponsive (can't even get anyone on the phone). Their "tech" guy seems to be on permanent "he's not here right now" status.



I'm looking into other options (aka McLeod throwout bearing), because I'm starting to get extremely frustrated with Keisler.

But at any rate it won't be driving this weekend. Instead I get to take everything back apart.

[burch]

Well McLeod came through and shipped me a "slip on" throwout bearing. They even shipped it with Saturday delivery like I asked so I could get everything back together this weekend!

To say this bearing is higher quality than the Keisler one would be an understatement:



It's full of nice design features, like lines that swivel so you can get them into the bellhousing (as opposed to the Keisler setup where I had to use a crowsfoot and monkey around trying to attach the line through the clutch fork hole), is totally rebuildable, and even came with spare o-rings in case something goes wrong.

Of course, it also cost $350 .

At any rate I pulled the transmission out and everything put back together with the new bearing, and then took the Keisler bearing apart to see if I could figure out what happened to it. As far as I can tell, the piston cocked over and seized in the bore, causing the seal to blow out almost completely. I can't really tell because the piston was so seized that it was impossible to totally disassemble the thing.

So I've added another company to my "never again" list, but hopefully I'll be able to get the car running this week. Just need to pick up a 22" -4AN line to connect the McLeod bearing to the master cylinder.

[burch]

Woohoo! I got everything back together tonight, and ran the transmission in on jackstands!

As soon as the monsoons let up I'll get it out on the road. Expect video.

[Keisler Engineering]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jon Burchmore:
Update: Wenesday, I went back out to the garage, pushed the clutch pedal twice, and was greeted by the tinkling noise of all of the brake fluid in the clutch hydraulic system POURING out of the throwout bearing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jon,
Sorry you had problems with our hydraulic bearing and that you could not get through to our tech department. George had been at a car show, and working on our '81 Turbo T/A 6-speed project.

I can assure you the bearing you received is - BY FAR - the BEST HYDRAULIC BEARING IN THE WORLD. I can say this because have years of experience with the hydraulic bearings. And after discarding many dozens of the bearings you just purchased from another supplier, which we discontined due to loosing countless $$ and phone man-hours for leak problems and fitment, I know there is no better part than the one we supplied you.

We are making some design changes so the bearing will fit to the SFI bellhousing easier.

The reason your bearing failed is because it was crooked when you installed it. The bearing will then side load and you will have problems. We had this failure by another customer 1X only, and we studied the problem cause in depth, because it was the only one. If our tech dept had spoken to you, we would have addressed the issue promptly with a free replacement. Again, sorry we didn't react sooner.

If you go to the bearing you purchased later, keep your bag of o-ring seals handy, and some tools for the road. One of our customers using that one had it fail in a parade, another at a car show, etc, etc.

I called your house today to review the problem. Please call me to discuss the situation resolution.

Also, here are a few other things to note about our Keisler 5-speed kit versus what you purchased:
1. the kit we manufacture is complete and will fit your car WITHOUT CUTTING; the one you show will not fit a Gen 1 F-body without cutting
2. we make a true bolt-in kit for Gen 2 F-body also - again - no cutting
3. ALL of our kits are complete with crossmember and driveshaft and all fitment parts.

We now have many sucessful installations in gen 1 and gen 2 Pontiacs - including the owner of Year One - Len's '69 Trans Am. We have covered all years of Trans Am through 2004.

Thank you for ordering the hydraulic system and we would like to make your installation a 100% sucess.

[burch]

I just got off the phone with Shafi Keisler. We had a very good discussion.

The basic consensus is that the original throwout bearing failed because it was installed crooked, either due to a machining issue or a mistake during installation.

I'm going to send my (broken) parts back, and they're going to send me a complete set of new parts (at their expense) so that I can give their stuff another try, and they can try to determine the cause of the failure by examining the parts. They were very committed to working through the problem and also convinced that their setup was superior to the McLeod setup that's in the car at the moment.

Also, in their defense their tech guy, George, left me several messages at home on Monday. Unfortunately I had already reached my frustration threshold by then and moved on to the McLeod bearing.

[pontiacmark]

Jon,
I hope you get things sorted out for the best. Shafi is a friend of mine and I contacted him as soon as I read your post. He will do what he can to make things right for you. Shafi had asked for my input on redesign of the McLeod cylinder a couple of years ago due to persistent problems he was having with them. I design pneumatic cylinders for a living. Although I was not involved in the current Keisler design, I have confidence that it will work well for you.

[burch]

Well, it finally stopped raining long enough for me to get the car out on the road and see how it worked!

I'm happy to report that everything operated smoothly, including the McLeod throwout bearing.

Video! ~66mb, requires Windows Media 9:

http://www.firebirdofdoom.com/video/...tko600test.wmv

I also shipped the broken parts off to Keisler today--they should have them mid-next-week, and we'll see how that situation works itself out. For now I'm satisfied that the car is drivable again.

[David Holmberg]

Excellent Jon, I'm glad to see you driving the car again. Also congrats on the HPP appearance.

[burch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Holmberg:
Excellent Jon, I'm glad to see you driving the car again. Also congrats on the HPP appearance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks! My picture in HPP is absolutely horrible though.

[Hammered]

Jon,

Congrats on the HPP appearance as well. I really like all the mods you've done to your car. I'm also glad you are getting things worked out with Keisler as well because I'm expecting one of their TKO-600 kits to land on my doorstep in a couple weeks. I have found that there are periods when they are impossible to reach by phone. I had the same problem with McLeod (I bought their Street Twin) and it's do to understaffing. For example, the owner of McLeod handles all the tech issues. I guess it's how they stay competitive but it sure is frustrating.

John

[67'7F6'Bird]

Great video Jon!
May I request MPH added on the next one. LOL