[PetesPonies]

well if you look back at my posts with the pics I showed, I have a very original 1970 Firebird that came with the leather type knob. That car was as original as you get, everything. I am positive that is the knob that came on it. But it seems, that people are saying that a leather knob is not correct for a TA, but could have been on a regular Firebird. The white it seems was from 69 and earlier. Right?

[PetesPonies]

I don't know who's car this is, but the knob is the leather type and I have seen many this way...

[roundportponchos]

That is 71 & up.

[unruhjonny]

Pete, just because you've seen many that way doesn't make it correct... somone could have easily swapped the simulated leather knob in your car on the thirty-some-odd-years prior to your purchase of it...

oh, and that picture you used to prove your point... theres a painfully wrong piece in plain veiw... any guesses as to what it is? (if one piece has been swapped, a 30 second shifter handle swap is much more feasable.)

The only 1970 advertisment photo (obviously from a pre-production car) with the simulated leather knob in place, has a knob with the walnut knobs' insert (a totally different one than the ones shown) - this makes it a simulated leather variant that I have never seen pictured outside of that one photo...

Also, all of the 1970 road tests I've seen with stick cars had the black ball...

[PetesPonies]

well I restore cars, not Pontiacs though. I am not a nubile to the car world at all and I trust my evaluation. This leather knob that was on my car looked as old as everything else. It is not like the repo leather knobs. The car was a 350 2v '70 Firebird with console. There was not a thing changed on the car..no where. It had set for over 10 years when I got it. I truely believe the knob came with the car, it matched. Now maybe the leather came with a console?

[PetesPonies]

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. I ran across these for sale and interesting enough, they are listed as "without console". These are the all black round knobs. Not that this is proof, but this is what I suggested on my last post, that maybe the leather style was original with a console??

http://www.bodypartswarehouse.com/Re...ird-Middle.htm

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by pressthatpedal

Has anyone bought the '70 black ball repro that Ames lists? It says it is a little bigger than original, but the one that is in my '70 Formula (standard int) is so worn down it looks like crap.

I bought one in the autumn. The T/A is in a garage many miles away, so I can't take a picture. It is noticeably larger than the white shift ball. I don't really like the way it feels, but that's probably b/c I'm used to the "standard size" shifter ball in my '65 and '67 GTOs, and up unitl now, in my '70 T/A.

Frank

[Chiefpontiac]

I can provide two more examples of TA's equipped with the large black ball:

1) 1970 TA without console and less than 100k miles built in May 1970. Did not end up with this car but it was original down to the hose clamps.

2) 1971 TA with console and less than 90k miles built in August 1970. This is my personal car and it is definitely the original knob. It also has the chrome rings around the gauges.

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by PetesPonies

I don't know who's car this is, but the knob is the leather type and I have seen many this way...

Pete, what year is this car? I see the RTS on the dash.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by racerboy

Pete, what year is this car? I see the RTS on the dash.

No more calls please, we have a winner!

[Larry Navarro]

Technically....there were two(2) different type "leather" knobs in the '70's.
The early ones had a raised shifter bezel.
The later ones had a flush mounted bezel.

Both knobs are featured on the first page of this thread.

[PetesPonies]

right..and if you go back to the first page of this thread, you will see the actual knob from my '70 in a pic that I posted. It is the raised type as most say is the early style. So..what determined if a '70 got this raised type leather knob or the plain black ball knob? Console?... although Chief has a console and his has the black knob.... Whatever the guys on the line picked up? We could have a situation where console cars should have the leather type knob, but at the discretion or lack of care from the line workers, whatever was picked up was used????

[eaglesan13]

My 70 has a console and the large black shifter ball. I was always told that the leather one wasn't used till 1971, but check out this picture. You can't see the printing due to the flash but this is a advertisement for 1970 firebirds and it has the leather style shifter, (and no console). In the photo, the center appears to be red. I can't tell if it has the pontiac logo or not. Sometimes I wonder if they didn't run out of certain items on the line and just substitute what they had available. Case in point, Keith K''s car and mine were built in the Van Nyes plant the same day, 34 units apart so they were probably built within an hour of each other. The are optioned almost identically, but his car has the chrome rings around the gauges and mine are black. So, it seems reasonable that two different shifter balls could have been used.

[roundportponchos]

I have a deluxe interior in my RAIV. I believe the red insert knobs went in deluxe interior. Most all advertizement show the blue deluxe gut w/red insert shift knob.

[roundportponchos]

Notice the bird, all the way on right side. They moved it over to the left in july, 70.

[eaglesan13]

Roundport,

My 70 has deluxe interior (sandlewood) and the black shifter knob.

[roundportponchos]

I'm sure there is no wrong answer, they used what they had on shelf @ the time. The red insert knob seems to be real rare. I was lucky to score a nos one @ TA nats in 1992.

[PetesPonies]

so maybe rather than being a certain knob with ot without console or deluxe interior...it is more a date thing. Maybe early in the year verses later in the year etc. I'm surprised that it isn't common knowledge as to when and where these knobs were used. In the Mustang world, there isn't much to guess. Most has been documented and "figured" out.

[pmdclassics]

Speaking of shifter balls, any idea what these balls are from? Probably aftermarket is my guess.

[roundportponchos]

My 71, built 12/70 has chrome bezel rims.