[Skip Fix]

I'm not a tripower guy,ran dual quads for a long time, and will again, but would also have to say once you get away from Rochesters originality is out the door, make it perform the best it can and tune the easiest. I would also think center hung bowls would be better, Holley/Demon 4bbls use them with a dropped fuel line , you just have one more bowl tacked on with the tripower.

BG Tech, a little off topic, I used my standby Demon 850 on my new street motor and had some tuning issues some documeneted with my AFR. Multiple e mails to tech all went unanswered, phone tech said AFRs are worthless, jet for WOT or on dyno and don't tune other circuits. Swapped Holley 850 back on and will use the Demon on the race motor again. Be glad to e mail you problems.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"phone tech said AFRs are worthless, jet for WOT or on dyno and don't tune other circuits."

You know Skip, it is "Advice" like that from BG Techs on the phone that really should make Barry Grant fire some people when he hears they are telling people that BS.

Makes a person like me (who used to work at Holley, and knows it is pure BS as many of you do), think BG is not the carb you want on your vehicle if you ever have tuning issues.

Personally I think with a little bit more control of BS comments like that and working with the Pontiac community we could have some fine products out of BG like their new Pontiac Tri-power set-up.

JMO

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

BG Guy, if you are out there, call me and we can discuss your questions on the Pontiac tri-power. I sent you an e-mail with the info.

Will resend.

Tom V.

E-Mail sent again.

[Tech @ BG]

Guys thanks for all of the feedback.

Skip,

Sorry about that. Nor sure what happened to your e-mails. We changed servers, so they may have gotten lost in the transfer. Not being part of the conversation it's hard to determine exactly what was said about AFR. Normally what we try to tell people is that they need to find where their specific combination runs the best since there is not a set A/F where every engine will run best. If you'll send me an e-mail here we should be able to help you out.

[Tech @ BG]

Tom,

Glad to catch up with you today. Thank you very much for timer, and all of the information. You've let me know that we're headed in the right direction with our combination, and that the torque, and power numbers we came up with at Butler's on our prototype are in the ball park.

[DiamondJim]

Quote"testing at Butlers". That is great news, sounds like this is a serious project, can't wait to see some more info. Will you make the flow numbers public info? Will this set-up be geared to the 455ci plus crowd? Will pricing be in line with your other systems? Thank you for your work. -Jim

[rob6773]

Tom do you think stock cfm size carbs. on a single plane tripower manifold would work well?

[Tom Vaught]

Rob6773,

If you are referring to using Rochester 2 bbls on a "offy" style intake for performance, all I can say is that I have personally built up 4 "Offy" tri-powers for people using new castings (when they were available) (Bill Klausing got them for me through a connection) and they worked just fine. They used three LARGE Rochester 2 bbls like a 66 unit does.

BGTECH,

Yep, really enjoyed our talk today. I think you have a plan for the Pontiac market that would hopefully include the following:

Target is 300 CFM intake runners and better performance than a 750 cfm 4 bbl carb and a Performer RPM intake.

A Tri-power linkage (using a slotted "Pull" type linkage) that will have 4 different combinations of secondary opening rates, (much like the early Super Duty Tri-Power did but using modern geometry).

A simplified 1/2" ID fuel transfer tube that will have the ability to support the fuel demand of the tri-power system and allow (with the purchase of an additional front banjo fitting) the ability to monitor fuel pressure at the rear of the "fuel rail".

Three custom BG 2 BBL carbs, using the same venturi, (1-3/8") as a 750 double pumper carb. Carbs will have Annular discharge boosters. Cfm will be 1050 (when rated the same as a 4 bbl carb).

Adjustable air bleeds, idle feed restrictions, and the ability to add changeable emulsion orifices for serious competition. Idle mixture screws on center carb only but secondary fuel control can be changed with air bleeds/ IFRs.

A single oval tri-power air cleaner design that will allow using 4 bbl filter elements but shaped to fit in the BG filter lid and base. This will allow using 3" and 4" K&N pieces for cars with hood clearance (scoops).

Units are targeted for mid summer release. A new Intake manifold and new carbs as an assembly.

Tom V.

Agreed?

[speedshopmike]

i'll throw something in:
your electric chokes stink.
they have forever, and still do; least, as of a year or more ago when i sold one last.
my personal examples were really lousy.
do a better job; street guys want and need a properly functioning choke.
i'm told by someone who legitimately knows that there is an attitude problem in engineering toward the street carbs.
being fair, at least, there was when said individual was an engineer at BG.

[Junkyard Dog]

Bump . . .

The info trickles in with rumor and innuendo . . .

300 cfm port feeding and the half inch fuel line sounds like this is something that people here would want . . .

[DiamondJim]

JYD, I may get you in a Tripower yet!! Would a 1050 carb 300CFM intake flow be enough for your Solid Roller Camed E-Headed Monster?? BTW, I plan on another trip to th dyno with the end carbs leaned out a little and a few other secret mods. I'll let you know, come on down. Maybe we can get them to correct the grapgh and do an overlay of the various pulls? This is great news from Barry Grant but BG Tech, if you are listening, it's PONTIAC TRIPOWER, not 6 Shooter, 6Pack or anything else. You need this name for sales! -Jim

[Tom Vaught]

I looked on a different link and made it to the BG "Six Shooter" web site.

I see that they now have a SB Chebby set-up and a BB Chebby set-up. (The BB Chebby set-up made about 500 hp on the dyno with Carbs rated at 250 CFM each.

BGTECH, I sure hope those were NOT the carbs you were talking about for the TRADITIONAL Pontiac intake deal you are working on. Please clarify.

750 cfm is NOT going to make it, period.

You can give the low performance "Six Shooter" deal with the 250 cfm carbs to the Chebby guys but we want the 300 cfm per runner deal and the 1050 cfm (rated like a 4 bbl at 20.4" of water, none of this 28" of test pressure stuff. Thanks.

Just to clarify.

Would be really sad to build something and then have it all wrong due to a communication screw-up.

Tom V.

[DiamondJim]

Tom, the 1050cfm, 500 ends and 350 center or 3-500's? I TOTALLY agree with everthing you stated a few posts above. Please Barry Grant, get it right. -Jim

[Tech @ BG]

Guys,

Sorry we haven’t replied sooner, been down in Daytona testing on the road course. Thank you for all of your comments we’ll try to address the questions that everyone has brought up.



DiamondJim,

Once we get closer to release we’ll have that information available. The goal is to have this package in the same price range as our other systems about $2400 (intake, carburetors, linkage, fuel rail, air cleaner, hardware, and gaskets. Six-Shooter is our Trade Marked name that we’re using on our 3x2 systems which differentiates them from other brands.



Speedshopmike,

What don’t you like about our choke system? Not being an OE choke that is designed for a specific engine it’s not going to function like the OE, but when set properly they work extremely well. My personal vehicle starts with one pump of the throttle without any problems regardless of the weather. Without knowing who you’re referring to it would be hard to comment on your “insiders” view, but I can say that in the last 13 years we haven’t had an engineer leave on their own accord, those that have left were asked to. The street car market is by far the largest market out there, and something we work very hard on.



Tom,

They are the same carburetors that you and I spoke about. 500 2bl (1.373” Venturi x 1.6875” Butterflies) utilizing an Annular Booster hence the 250 CFM rating. This package produced more torque and HP than the single 4bl on Butler’s 461” engine package, which was up almost 50HP to an original 3x2 Pontiac system. Going to larger carburetors decreased the throttle response, acceleration, torque, and HP on that engine.


If you have any other comments or questions please let us know. Our goal is to make the best product possible. We should be starting drivability testing within the next few weeks.

[slowbird]

Dont know if you guys know this but the stock tri-power intakes will go 300cfm with porting.

BG im wondering if your 50hp over a stock tri-power was over a 1965 setup or was it a 1966 setup?

[Tech @ BG]

Slowbird,

Honestly can't answer that. Those numbers came from the guys at Butler's that had run a modified 3x2 setup on the same package, and from numbers we've been given from many other engine builders. From what we've been told depending on engine size, and setup most street engines with a good single 4bl like a Performer RPM the single 4bl is up 35 to 50 HP.

[Tom Vaught]

BGTECH,

Quote:

"They are the same carburetors that you and I spoke about. 500 2bl (1.373” Venturi x 1.6875” Butterflies) utilizing an Annular Booster hence the 250 CFM rating. This package produced more torque and HP than the single 4bl on Butler’s 461” engine package, which was up almost 50HP to an original 3x2 Pontiac system. Going to larger carburetors decreased the throttle response, acceleration, torque, and HP on that engine."

Sorry guy but your math doesn't add up.

If the venturi sizes are the same that we talked about (1.373” Venturi x 1.6875”) you need to change your advertising as you are screwing yourselves on the air flow number.

A 1.375" venturi with a 1.6875 throttle plate will move about 350 cfm at 20.4" H2O. The same carb will flow 500 cfm when rated at a 2 bbl test pressure. The annular boosters typically will lose about 5 cfm per booster. 350 cfm times 3 = 1050 cfm minus 6 boosters times 5 cfm (30 cfm) = 1020 cfm. Even if the boosters lost 20 cfm per bore or 120 cfm you would be at 930 cfm not the 750 cfm in your advertising. See what I mean about the basic math.

JMO

Tom V.

How about you guys actually flowing a carb with the boosters
at 20.4" of h20 (with fuel) and providing a real number like Holley did for years? You guys have that capability, right?

Keep up the good work.

Tom V.

[DiamondJim]

I wish I had the ability to flow my modified 66 aluminum tripower and end carbs. I used to think my intake/carbs were the weak link(choke point) but now I am beginning to think my 256cfm heads are. Tom, didn't you flow one of the aluminum tripowers? Mine has been worked(ported) a little, gasket matched to Felpro 1233. My end carbs have been bored, Holley jets, smaller floats,probably 500cfm in 2 barrel terms. Wonder what my total flow is thru the heads? I am also wondering how much I could pick up by going with some ported 300cfm E's or KRE's, with maybe a secret sauce cam change??? So many ideas, so little time and money. -Jim

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"Tom, didn't you flow one of the aluminum tripowers?

Yep, I have data on three of them. No Carbs.

The good runners were in the 275 range and the bad runners were in the 260 range. Your heads are probably ok with a stock aluminum tri-power intake.

Quote:

"Mine has been worked(ported) a little, gasket matched to Felpro 1233. My end carbs have been bored, Holley jets, smaller floats,probably 500cfm in 2 barrel terms. Wonder what my total flow is thru the heads?

Even with the bore job like you described the stock 2bbl
carbs are pretty "dirty" vs say a Holley or BG carb in the air horn area. The ones I am doing for Robert Williams has the airhorns removed on the end carbs. The choke is needed on the center carb for most people.

Quote:

"I am also wondering how much I could pick up by going with some ported 300cfm E's or KRE's, with maybe a secret sauce cam change??? So many ideas, so little time and money. -Jim"

Good heads will always make the intake more efficient.
GTOGEORGE will tell you about that deal.

That is the main reason why I am asking for better stuff out of BG as the people with the good heads want a tri-power intake for their cars.

Tom V.

[DiamondJim]

Thanks Tom. When you say the Rochesters are dirty, do you mean the piece across the top of the airhorn that the air filter bolts to creates turbulence? The venturi work in my end carbs is very smooth and shaped well. How would air filters work without the strap across the air horn? Maybe I am confused and you are speaking of something else. I plan to see how far I can go with the Rochesters and the aluminum Tripower. So far 11.70/119 altitude corrected(actual 11.94/117) with a slipping clutch. My center carb is a stock 2GC that I modified with an electric choke, seems to work well even in cold weather. Making a few "go faster" mods this Winter but plan to stick with the Tripower. -Jim