[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

I hope your not referring to Chuck Critti. I've worked with Chuck for 15 years. He's not a cheater. I believe it was an honest mistake. Maybe foolish. But, not intentional. He had his rev limiter set too low. I'm sure he's not the only person to ever hit their rev limiter during a run. He told me, he offered to give the round, points, etc., back. He also told me that he came and apologized, to you, for it. Also, that you told him, that he "knew exactly what he was doing", and "get away from me".

Ignorance of the law (rules) is no excuse.
Hitting the rev limiter at a 1000 ft is no mistake.
He took the round, the points & the check.
Beleive what you want. I WILL.

[estep455]

hey ron you need to come see us at i57 next year may only be 1/8 mile but at least they can run an honest program that gets over before 3 a.m.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by old goat racer

Ignorance of the law (rules) is no excuse.
Hitting the rev limiter at a 1000 ft is no mistake.
He took the round, the points & the check.
Beleive what you want. I WILL.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt here. Please explain to me how he used hitting the rev limiter at 1000' to cheat. I'm having a hard time understanding your theory. Please describe the run so we can understand. Didn't you break out on that pass?

Honestly, if you had won the round, would you have still complained?

[goquick]

If A CAR nails a rev limiter before the end of the run, it's set too low, or the car needs a taller gear! Mine could use a taller gear!

JSchmitz, how is in your opinion the new guy doing running Gateway?

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by goquick

If A CAR nails a rev limiter before the end of the run, it's set too low, or the car needs a taller gear! Mine could use a taller gear!

His car actually doesn't have very low gears (can't remember). He explained to me why he had it set so low. I can't remember exactly his reasoning. It had something to do with the engine acting up over a certain rpm. Probably not a good idea. It's a very mild 318 in a '68 'Cuda. But, I know this guy pretty well. Very nice person. I hate to see him get a bad rap for this deal.

Originally Posted by goquick

JSchmitz, how is in your opinion the new guy doing running Gateway?

The program seems to be a little smoother lately. Still nothign to rave about. Lots of people doesn't help. M.A.R. was much better! I'm sure people in other areas would love to have it this bad.

[goquick]

ESTEP, I plan on running at I57 a few times at least next season with my car. I was there first part of the year driving a friends green early chevy II with purple flames. Blew it up on that one! I told him something wasn't right and he said run it anyway. That wasn't what he said afterwards! We can't print those words on here. At least he told me he should have listened to me.

[estep455]

look me up next time you make over this way. Danny

[Old Goat Racer]

After he took the chip out, he broke out on the next pass, Imagine that. I had gone down to the finish line to listen for the stutter, there were 2 other racers already there for the same reason. If I hadn't complained there was a line of racers behind me that would have. He labeled himself as a cheater, and I guarantee he will be watched by both classes he races in from now on.
I can't understand why you can't understand, oh wait, you're friends.

And yes, win or lose, I will stop a cheater. Make no mistake !!

[Old Goat Racer]

Danny, I know you haven't been to GIR lately but gates open at noon, time runs at 2,
(2 time runs per class, you run 2 classes, you get 4 time runs) eliminations at 4. We're usually done by 11-12.

[Old Goat Racer]

Goquick & Estep, I'd like to park near you guys at Benton sometime. Promise not to get my Indian feathers in a bunch. OGR
Is it spring yet ?

[estep455]

Ron just let me know when you can make it down i will save you a spot. glad to hear they get over that early at gir i will keep that in mind and try to make it up there a couple of times next season. i cant wait for spring, the car goes to the chassis shop tuesday to get the sheetmetal redone and then wait for my ia2 and back to racing hopefully in feb.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by old goat racer

After he took the chip out, he broke out on the next pass, Imagine that. I had gone down to the finish line to listen for the stutter, there were 2 other racers already there for the same reason. If I hadn't complained there was a line of racers behind me that would have. He labeled himself as a cheater, and I guarantee he will be watched by both classes he races in from now on.
I can't understand why you can't understand, oh wait, you're friends.

And yes, win or lose, I will stop a cheater. Make no mistake !!

What I still don't understand is, how running your car, and hitting the rev limter, could be an advantage. I couldn't understand it if he were a stranger. Seems like it would be a nightmare to dial in. I guess maybe he has an elaborate timing computer.

[Old Goat Racer]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

What I still don't understand is, how running your car, and hitting the rev limter, could be an advantage. I couldn't understand it if he were a stranger. Seems like it would be a nightmare to dial in. I guess maybe he has an elaborate timing computer.

Try it sometime, just don't let me catch you.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by old goat racer

Try it sometime, just don't let me catch you.

Seriously, I'm being sincere. What is your theory about how it is an advantage? I've asked several times now. Have you tried it? I can see how it could keep you from breaking out. But, I would think your consistency would go in the toilet. Maybe I'm just naive.???

You'll never catch me cheating (What would happen if you did?). It doesn't mean that much to me. I don't need the money. Winning, while cheating, would mean nothing to me.

[Probird]

I've always wondered how that would be an advantage also. But there must be a reason for it. It is very plainly spelled out in the rule book.

IGNITION: Timed-ignition devices (stutter boxes) prohibited. Starting-line and/or "high-side" rev limiter permitted. Two-steps, rev limiters, or any other rpm-limiting devices, legal unto themselves but altered or installed so as to function as a down-track rpm controller, prohibited.

Anyone know how a down-track rpm limiter will help a car be more consistant? My guess is that by hitting the rev-limiter down track at the same point every time you will be able to tell whether the car is going to break out or not. If you hit that point on the track before the rev-limiter kicks in you would be breaking out and vise-versa. I'm not sure but that is my guess.

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by Probird

I've always wondered how that would be an advantage also. But there must be a reason for it. It is very plainly spelled out in the rule book.

IGNITION: Timed-ignition devices (stutter boxes) prohibited. Starting-line and/or "high-side" rev limiter permitted. Two-steps, rev limiters, or any other rpm-limiting devices, legal unto themselves but altered or installed so as to function as a down-track rpm controller, prohibited.

Anyone know how a down-track rpm limiter will help a car be more consistant? My guess is that by hitting the rev-limiter down track at the same point every time you will be able to tell whether the car is going to break out or not. If you hit that point on the track before the rev-limiter kicks in you would be breaking out and vise-versa. I'm not sure but that is my guess.

I acknowledge that it is against the rules, and he shouldn't have done it. I had never heard of the rule before this incident. I just don't think it was intentional, or an advantage. I think a shift light is more of an advantage than a rev limiter. If you hit the limiter on your 1-2 or 2-3 shift, it's going to slow your car down. This is going to ruin your consistency. In this case, OGR said he hit the limiter at 1000 feet. That's a little early to be an indication of a breakout.

[JSchmitz]

I looked up the pass in question (round 4).

Chuck: rt.166, dial 14.65, et 14.651, mph 82.28,
Ron: rt.031, dial 12.00, et 11.998, mph 103.61

Ron broke out on the brakes. No wonder he was pissed! You had him by a mile. I'm surprised you broke out. Certainly not like you. I've lost that way quit a few times. I always wonder, "Why couldn't I have hit the brakes .002 seconds earlier?".

Next pass (round 5):

Chuck: rt .014, dial 14.62, et 14.54, mph 84.42
Pat: rt .036, dial 12.10, et 12.108, mph 110.61

Maybe that rev limiter works better than I thought!

Chuck's four passes:

1 dial 14.69 et 14.683 breakout
2 dial 14.67 et 14.677
3 dial 14.66 et 14.674
4 dial 14.62 et 14.540

It does look suspicious. But, I don't think it's enough evidence to hang him. I looked at his passes before and after the race in question. I can't say that there's any smoking gun. He went two rounds in Street, and five rounds in Pro, at the last race of the year. Apparently it didn't affect his success too much.

I apologize for taking this thread in an obscure direction! Enough of this. It's water under the bridge (I hope!).

Ron, I hope you don't feel we are enemies now. We just see this deal differently. At least that's the way I feel.

[Old Goat Racer]

Goquick, about that new dragstrip...............

[goquick]

Yes, about a new dragstrip !!! We need one badly!!! I've been to near a hundred different tracks, and I have some ideas on how to make a very friendly racer and spectator track. I wouldn't have a tower located like most big tracks have. There is better use of that area. Racers like seeing the other races too. The way most current staging lanes are hidden from the track puts a real drag in drag racing.

[JSchmitz]

I think I may try to plan a couple trips, to other tracks, next year. Man I need a trailer. Not currently in the budget.

I have a couple of things for your list. First, staging lanes that go downhill towards the track (like M.A.R.). Second, a display board to let racers know what's going on. Like, what class is being called to what lanes, We're down for this, etc. It's hard to hear at a race track; no matter how good the P/A system is. I suggested this (the display board) to the Gateway manager. He seemed to like the idea. But, who knows if he will do it?