[440GP69]

why does the 290b work so well with a 106 lsa in a 455? seams too narrow yet works great even on the street. RA455 what compression was that engine?

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by 440GP69

why does the 290b work so well with a 106 lsa in a 455? seams too narrow yet works great even on the street.

A healthy dose of overlap to crutch moderate intake port flow performance,lots of additional exhaust lobe to extend the power curve upwards slightly,that also keeps it from "dropping off" the power curve after the peaks,also has a relatively early IC event that helps build a healthy amount of cylinder pressure by trapping a nice dense intake charge that was helped along by some excaptional exhaust scavenging,nothing too complicated really.

Worst thing you can do to a cam like that is run a restrictive exhaust system with it.

Agree it'll work fine with nitrous too,I have a 290b6 in the B/U 406 for the race car,that engine will be getting sprayed plenty someday I assure ya'll.

I would advise watching the for sale forum here very closely,tons of deals pop up on some very good hardware.

Take some heads for instance,you wont be able to build a set for what I've seen some nice ones go for here recently,and if I were even remotely going to consider building a set of iron heads,I would suggest considering the aftermarket aluminum offerings,the cost is very competitive with nice iron heads,that is unless your getting a bunch of the parts & labor for those iron heads at a healthy discount or such.

If you use the iron heads,at the miminum plan on replacing all the OE 2 pc. valves with quality 1 pc. stainless steel valves,fill the exhaust crossovers,open up the pushrod holes for high ratio rockers,that sorta stuff...

If your gonna spray it with a healthy shot,definitely plan to use a single plane intake,my preference is the torker II or victor.

Dont waste any money on "flashy" or "trick" parts or machine work that some might suggest as necessary,stick to basics,if it does'nt have a valid reason to be needed,dont use/do it.

Do use a torque plate for the bore/hone though,and zero deck it (or as close as is practical).

Cast crank is fine.

If the mains are straight,run them.

Agree good/strong/light-weight forged rods and pistons are both worth spending on.

And do spring for a good balance job,bring them everything that your gonna bolt to the crank,flexplate,balancer,that sorta stuff.

And spring for a good oil pan & PU to control the oil in the sump.

And a HD OP shaft is too.

And dont go cheap on the valvesprings,pushrods,or rocker arms either.

With a healthy solid cam turning some RPM's,plan to run a stud girdle too...

Dont waste big money on a shiny new distributor here,get a useable HEI and gut it of it's electronic module and such,then lock it out,and use that to trigger your prefered "bug zapper" box with a good coil and some quality plug wires and your all done for ignition needs.

What you will definitely want for any serious nitrous use is some means to retard the timing when "on the kit",especially if your spraying a healthy shot,lots of options for that with the aftermarket ignition boxes.

And dont skimp on the fuel system either,use a smaller fuel cell,a GOOD fuel pump with an external return on it,proper plumbing hardware and line sizing,then use a fuel log with the right regulators for the engine and kit and again your done here.

Exhaust,yeah the mad dog headers would be worthy,those really are nice,use a minimum of 3" pipes from the collectors,use an H or X pipe (your preference),and dont run restrictive mufflers,make sure the mufflers you use are very free-flowing like the dynomax ultra-flo's or such.

Better yet,,,if race only,,,just use some collector extensions and make some noise!!!

Drivtrain is mostly standard high-perf stuff,auto trans of choice,and as stated use a quality built converter (dont skimp here),match the trans/stall/gear/tire package to the combo,use good axles,and loose the C-clips,and IMO a HD cro-mo driveshaft is a must with 1350 solid U-joints and good yokes.

Suspension is one area you can save money if you know what your doing,sure the cal-tracs are nice and all,but not mandatory.

I know for a fact any given leaf-sprung car can hook just fine with far less sophisticated hardware when it is all set-up properly.

Make sure the saftey gear is there,and I would strongly suggest at least a 6 pt. roll bar and subframe connectors and solid body bushings to stiffen the car up some.

Low 11's should be no problemo if you dont get distracted somehow,or botch on the tuning or chassis.

[ThomcatNLR]

WOW, all great replies. im leaning definitley toward the solid cam now, though it seems that the cam and all hardware to go with it is quite a bit more than the hyd. (i can get the hyd. cam kit for 350 from my shop) Nitrous is looking much better, as i can probably get more out of the combo with it. Oh, and im in Maine, so not exactly driving distance for VA, but wat was the idea? (Just out of curiosity) As far as Cal-Tracs, that would be all based on what i have left after everything. If need be, i will just run the springs i have, which are brand new, and an old set of slappers i have in my barn.

[RAIV55]

Originally Posted by 440GP69

RA455 what compression was that engine?

IIRC SCR was 12.3

[iceman411]

Cal tracs are great, yet a little pricey. If your slappers are J-bolts, then you are all set. Folks around my area and my chassis builder recommends J-bolts on the cheap. You'll be covered into the 9's with them, yet I'm sure Cat-tracs are more consistant. Sounds like your gonna have some great FUN!!! Keep us posted.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Never run cast rods,whatever you do.

why not. I ran em for 2 years on a 175 shot into the 10.70's 3650lbs back then.

He said cheap and for a limited race deal.

[Ron H]

Doubt he will be throwig the car away once he makes his run? Is this a Pink's thing?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by 71 Ventura II

I think what Ken meant to say is should run high 10's with that much juice!
*** Unless in Florida when people say their running a small 175 shot it actually means 225/275 shot? It might have something to do with the "Humidity" or the "Curveture" of the earth or something I'm not sure! LOL jking

Bwahahahahaha. You sound like Ray when he posts on the board.............. I ONLY had 34 pills in it but forgets when he told me he had 40's.

I'm talking without a killer tune up and on the safe side it should run deep into the 11's. When I refer to low I mean teens or better.


I was referring to a slammer combo. Throw it together and tear up someones a$$.

I see a lot of anal retentive over kill post. LOL. The first line of the post says it all.
Yeeeeeeeeeech.

Throw it together, Spray it, take his money, shut the beeauch up and have fun.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by ThomcatNLR

im leaning definitley toward the solid cam now, though it seems that the cam and all hardware to go with it is quite a bit more than the hyd. (i can get the hyd. cam kit for 350 from my shop)

What comes in the kit,what brand and what cam???

I bought my 290b6 here NIB for far less than retail price,same with some low use crower #68405-16 springs and comp #7262-16 cro-mo pushrods,as well as both a comp and a Jomar stud girdle.

At one time or another tons of good stuff pops up here @ very good prices.

I agree you can do some things much more simply,but if you plan to keep it together afterwards,it's better to spend now for certain things,than have to re-do that stuff later on,that means spending on things like the bottom end,other items like heads are easy enough to replace later on,but re-doing a short block is another thing entirely.

And when you skimp on something like oil control in the sump,or 30+ year old 2 piece valves,you risk ending up with a pile of junk parts to show for your efforts and investment.

What I tend to spend my money on are parts that can transfered along with any upgraded parts later on.

That's why I would'nt spend a ton on iron heads unless you plan to keep/use them later on.

Some things are catch-22's though,,,your damned if you dont,,,and damned if you do...

Myself I save tons of money by doing most all the work myself,and buying when I find deals,so I can afford to spend on the more important stuff when I deem it necessary.

For example,I build my own auto transmissions myself so I can spend more on the converter,that sorta thing.

But yeah,some items like the maddog headers could be substituted for some generic hedman 1 3/4" four tubes or such with a minimal HP penalty,yet save a nice chunk of change,especially if your going to run an open exhaust system.

But other items like the stock rods,I would question why anyone would use the OE cast rods,when the budget forged I beams with 7/16" bolts are competitive with re-working those cast rods and adding good 3/8" bolts,and those cast rods still ending up being weaker compared to the budget I beam forgings.

I agree a lightweight RA is a nice thing if you can afford the extra cost,but it's not absolutely needed for this sorta deal.

And the newly available KB forgings would be a good budget forged piston choice for a deal like this,they have the lighter pins as SOP,a slightly taller CH,and are drilled for the oil ring instead of being slotted,so those would be my piston choice for this.

But to spray the thing with any respectable shot,you'll definitely want forged pistons.

Other items like the oil pump,timing chainset,and such,those are areas where money can be saved as long as your careful when assembling the engine and check that they are fit to use and assembled & installed properly.

I'm just advising weighing the current needs vs. the long term aspects,that's all.

[ThomcatNLR]

im hoping to build something i can possibley build off of in the future. so i wanna buy as many parts as i can that will let me grow. not just stuff that i will buy and then grow out of when i decide to build a serious motor. sorry, never said that. thanks again guys. i borrowed a sandblaster for the weekend to clean the body/chassis to prep for some body work. Any body know if there are any rules on running lexan windows at trhe track? i have always ran glass, but i can get sheet of lexan for decent price from my uncle who's a roundy-rounder. Oh, and also, are there any rules as far as seats go? He said i can have his old stock car seat if it would work. I guess its a real expensive one. not sure if i can use it though. Thanks again to everyone. this little bet is getting my buddies worried. One just ordered up $1200 worth of cam/valvetrain hardware for his LS1. I have a feeling this is gonna snowball... should be fun.

[Dragncar]

You know why Dude.Just because you got away with it does not mean it was a smart move.
Cast rods are nothing more than a time bomb in a performance engine.If they cost the same as prepped cast rods,and they do(starting at 169$ for a 5140 forging and 300$ for a 4340 forging) the only why is why use cast rods.They should be a thing of the past,Pontiacs worst idea ever(that or the open lifter galley) and are responsible for more Pontiac blocks in the scrap yard than any other thing.Plain fact of the matter is we would have many more Pontiac blocks around if they had good rods stock.
Tomcat,forged rods and pistons,455,RAIV cam,fill the crossover,some bowl work,gasket matching,3000 stall,some gear. High 11 seconds without the juice BS.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Now he changed his mind in his build process and i totally agree about the rods. That's the trouble with giving advise.

But if he's was, is or whatever his plan is in the next post ????????????????????

he wanted an 11 second slammer to beat his buddy without spending a lot of money. Period.

So why buy forged this and that for a one time deal?????????????? At the time of his original post. At this point I don't really phuckin care.

Read his First post, Hesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it just needs to win, lol. 1 pass, low ET takes the pot and the bragging rights.

His biggest expense would be a good used Nitrous kit that is checked out first. But take it and run. I really don't know what he wants to do now.

BTW: Curious, how old are you ThomcatNLR ?????????????

[PONTIAC LARRY]

455 ,CAT rods ,Speed Pro Forged flattops, 6x-4's with porting, Holley Street Dominator Intake, Good 800 Qjet, RAIV 041 cam with 1.5 HS's , good 10" converter, 3.42's ,NOS Power Shot 125 hp, traction..

Buddys 78 T/A with above turned 100 mph in the 1/8th right off the get go...

[screamingchief]

I know I would'nt run any engine on nitrous were I not 100% certain about the ring sealing or valve stem oil control,were a fella to get too much oil in that chamber when he starts spraying it,I dont care how "dead on" his kit tune is,bad things are gonna happen real fast.

That to me means a rebuild is order,the days of finding good/cheap/useable shortblocks for this sorta thing are pretty much long since gone,and not all of us have a full on machine shop to build whatever we need to "slap together" on a whim for a deal like described here.

Wore out "slammer motor" + big shot "O" nitrous = nice big pile of damaged parts and wasted $$$$ & time.

Can it be done on a modest budget,sure enough,wont argue that logic.

But lets be honest about this,if it were as easy as some are suggesting,most all of us would be doing it that way.

Regardless,the money for some things needs to be spent to make this happen,fuel system,exhaust,chassis mods,dedicated drag tires,saftey gear,that sorta stuff.

Cheap out on something like a driveshaft or axles and you may not even get to make a full pass...

Deals like this are never cheap or easy.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Hey Chief. You over anal-ize it. I ran 1/8th oil rings with a 350 shot. No issues and no vacuum pump. I have run pop ups that eveyone said don't use and 350 shots of spray. No issues. Trouble is too many PAPER racers. Not enough actual racers.
I have run more nitrous in so many different combos since 1980, then you ever even thought about running in one combo. Give it a rest. You give extremes and blah,blah blah.

Jesus dude. He said ONE PASS in his first post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I posted accordingly without using 127 paragraphs to get a point accross. LOL.

he changed it up.

Nobody said anything about WORE OUT" ?

Slammer.

cheap parts but rebuilt.

Stock pistons and rods. polished crank. hone block with new bearings. Cheap Summit cam and lifters. Recommend an open manifold. Plate it and go. But still pay attention to details.

Karen's T/A had 40,000 miles on a STOCK T-350 with a stock converter. Then put a 455 in it. STOCK RODS. We ran 175 shots thru it (Hell, she made 25 plus passes in 3 days at Reynolds dragstrip in one weekend!!!) and a ATI Procharger later running 12.30 flat with only 6lbs of boost. All stock type stuff. It's listed on my wwebsite. Notricks. And ALL stock tranny stuff. She put 25,000 miles on it and when she wore the .060 cylinder walls out i then rebuilt the tranny and put a Saturday night special converter in it with a 400/455 short block.

It's not always the parts. It's paying attention to details and basic engine rules.

Party on. I'm done and moving on. LOL>

[screamingchief]

Anybody that "builds" an engine for one run like that is a friggin moron IMHO.

There,,,that should be simple enough for ya'll to understand...

That's not over analyzed,,,now is it???

That's just a fellas ego being bigger than the rest of his brain can control.

Now dont get me wrong,I'm not saying this fella is like that at all,I dont know him so how could I make a judgement like that one way or the other?

I'm just saying this arguing about budgets often amounts to being pennywise and pound foolish.

Yeah,I'm done too.

[J.C.you]

if only one bonzai pass against brand x chumps, cheapest way is have gun will travel.....rent you a ringer for a day...... go win the race, move your junk around in the back yard alittle and go back into retirement.....

[TIN TIGR]

wow..i read it was a 1 pass deal also..for e.t only..no heads up deal..i'm retarded tho, cuz we ran cast rods into the 10's( a little juice) before even dude started,hes a pup..i agree totally on the "paper" racer aspect..

dont tell me what i know ive done and had work is stupid..run a ra4 cam?..phucking hilarious..stick to bracket racing with jim hand..it will work well and be consistent , but never fast..(not to knock hand, he is just not fast, period)..quit being scared of rpm or hp in a yak..run real cams..bunch of sissys..wahhh..234 at 050 aint a camshaft..

i could win your match race for less than 1500 bucks if i had a decent block assembly..

if it needs to live, buy the forged rods..buy some forged pistons too..of course boring , balancing, decking, align hone..etc etc etc..ez-er to rent a motor for the weekend..i bet dude would ship ya one..feel like a pro stock racer.."i lease my race engines"..act like a baller..if you were local to me, i sure would put a little something something in your engine bay..and make side bets with the other competitors..


quit being scared..racers aint scared..are you a racer?...

[Thumpin455_GTO]

Originally Posted by TIN TIGR

quit being scared..racers aint scared..are you a racer?...

Hell man, I aint skurred, I'm broke!

[screamingchief]

I can all but guarantee NOBODY here on these forums is more broke than I am.

My budget is as tight as it gets,end of conversation.

Most guys in my income range could'nt even afford to hold onto one project car,let alone three of them.

Yet I still wont cut some corners for the sake of my budget,those items will wait till the money is there,that simple.

And yet I still manage to make decent progress on the two current primary projects day to day.

And I also find time to work on my brothers project car as well.

I just read between the lines in this fellas post better than some others fellas did.

Dude reads this line:

Originally Posted by ThomcatNLR

it just neds to win, lol. 1 pass, low ET takes the pot and the bragging rights.

And that's what he chose to focus on.

I read this line:

Originally Posted by ThomcatNLR

So, my plan so far, is gut the hell out of the bird, do the major rust/body repair and basically prep it a race car.

And I knew we were talking about something more than a car a fella is building just because he wants to win a race...

If all that was important was winning the race,,,who the hell would care about any rust or body repairs???

The race is part of it,sure enough,but I could sense there were plans beyond the race.

I read the first post,,,all of it,,,not just one sentence of it,,,and I read between the lines as well...

The fella said he wanted better pistons,so obviously were talking about a rebuilt motor already,right folks.

He said "minimal machine" work,right again?

And he said he wanted cal-tracs,well I'm smart enough to know those are'nt required gear to do the job discussed here,and I suggested that at least some of that money would likley be better spent elsewhere.

The fella said,and I quote:

Originally Posted by ThomcatNLR

Budget is fairly low.

Hmmmm,,,I know plenty about that...

How many of us have planned/tried to build an eleven second car from scratch,and thought we were going to do it "on a tight budget" only to find out that was nearly impossible to pull off.

I just suggested the fella think long and hard about what is "needed",and what is "wanted" or "suggested",that's all folks.

As some have suggested the best "budget" plan would be to rent a "ringer" engine,now that is sound logic for a deal like this.

I'd say it'll take at least 5 grand to make this happen building up from a basic rolling chassis and non-running engines,and folks,that is not including body work or paint costs.

That's about what I got into my '72 firebird right now,,,and most of that is in the ported iron heads...

And it might be able to reach that sorta goal when I finish it,after I get time to tune on it,and sort out the chassis and such.

As a matter of fact,my bird is pretty much a perfect example of what is being discussed here,the only reason it has the expensive ported iron heads on it now,is because I had them sitting around not being used on anything else,and by using them it allowed me to sell the freshly built but unported 6X8 heads that were on the "budget" 455 short block in my car now,and by selling the 6x's it gave me money to buy other parts I needed for my cars.

Being on a tight budget means using what you have the best you can,and if you cannot,or are not using it currently,sell it,or trade it,and get something you can use.

I had way too much money into the ported iron heads to loose my ass selling or trading those,so selling off the basic 6X8's were the lesser of two evils for me,plus the 455 will run better with the ported #96's anyways.

Nobody with any brains is gonna dump that kind of money into a car for just one race,and then move on to something else.

I stand by my initial post,and the follow up post,they were 100% on topic and totally relevant.

Even if they were "a little long in the tooth"...

Like this post.

FWIW.