[lfdsteve]

There are as many dishonest cops as there are dishonest people. Unfortunatly in a "your word vs his word" situation, you will always loose. Probably should just eat the ticket and move on as most judges don't really care and will uphold it just because.
Good luck
Steve

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by 69goatboy

I know it's traffic court, but it's still a court of law, is it not?

If so, shouldn't the LEO, or the municipality, have to prove her case first? For she shoulders the burden of proof. It should not be up to you to defend your innocence.

This is "CIVIL" court.Big difference.This is why AZ.DPS just lowered "Criminal speeding"caught on camera,to a civil charge.This is because in criminal court,you are guarranteed the right to cross examine your accuser.But how can you cross examine a camera?
THe real reasaon they did this is ALL criminal speeding charges caught on camera were getting tossed and the state was LOSING money.C*cksuckers.

[69goatboy]

So, the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thingy does not apply to civil court?

[Cobrabill]

With a cop's title being "professional witness"?In civil court the "bar" goes from "beyond a shadow of a doubt"to "preponderance of evidence".THis is how they got the LAPD cops after the Rodney King thing AND how they got O.J. in civil trials.

With a cop as a "professional witness",the state has the "preponderance of evidence"9 out of 10 times.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I wish we had that opportunity in MD, Phil...but we don't. I'll be going before a Montgomery County judge and make my plea and see how far I can get on the argument that I was too far away for the officer to get an accurate reading given the traffic conditions and the officers line of sight.

If that is your defense, Big Man, you might as well pay the court right now.

The LEO has probably a hundred tickets already on the books that were based off of tracking vehicles from that exact same spot, and the Judge probably backed up the
LEO on every one of them. Now you are going to try and convince the Judge that the
equipment is not accurate from that spot, right (;>)

I would be willing to bet that the LEO had enough practice watching traffic to easily
pick out you from the crowd, lay the sight on your vehicle, and punch up a reading.
Now the deal is, how do you know that the reading on his machine wasn't from another
vehicle? he does not have to prove that it was your vehicle, he just has to state that he
tracked your vehicle and recorded the speed, whether it was true or not. he will win.

How can you prove otherwise? It sounds like a professional speed trap, "Revenue generator for the City" just exactly like the ones we have in some cities in Michigan that have been written up over and over on the internet.

http://courthouseforum.com/forums/thread.php?id=1051167

Tom Vaught

[Brian Baker]

Tom (and others), not to worry...I will be doing my homework before I go to court. I doubt anyone else that has received a ticket in this area has ever fought one from a great distance and questioned the officer at length as to the devices accuracy at such a distance. The judge certainly isn't going to be looking at previous judgements on the spot to cite case law, and the officer isn't going to have that information either. At best, the officer is going to have her word, combined with information regarding when the device had last been calibrated. I was more than 5 football fields away when she allegedly clocked my truck, with the officer sitting in the middle of a busy intersection that handles 4 way traffic (to which the traffic was moderate at that time). I don't think she shot me from her sight picture, I think she got one of the vehicles in front of me. Her not willing to tell me why I was being pulled over until I asked twice bugs me too.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Mike Valentine knows what he's doing with the detectors. Wonder if he submitted an improvement funded under "STAR".

[Silver Judge]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Mike Valentine knows what he's doing with the detectors. Wonder if he submitted an improvement funded under "STAR".

HIS, the Valentine unit is awesome, you're right & it works pretty well with laser.

Mr. Baker, you're up for a challenge with fighting this ticket, let us know how it goes

[Brian Baker]

I kno wit will be an uphill battle, but if I do nothing I get the points and the fine anyway. If I fight I at least have a chance, however slim it may be.

[Dennis H.]

My question would be, were you speeding? Sounds like you were and you are only fighting it because you were the one they caught.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Dennis H.

My question would be, were you speeding?

Doesn't matter if he was, or wasn't. Innocent until proven guilty...

[Dennis H.]

My question again, if you were speeding, and you know it, and you got caught, trying to get out of a ticket on a technicality does not make you innocent.

[sd7369]

Brian, my experience with MC cops and court is mixed. I have not been in many years, but go to court and if you are lucky the LEO won't show up and then you'll get a dismissal. Barring that, you most likely will lose, however, every time I have gone, the judge ALWAYS lowers the speed which ends ups with a smaller fine and point assessment. The only time they would not lower the charge (that I observed) is if the defendant was a habitual offender with many tickets. If you can prove your case, that would be best. Remember, the judge and officers see each other a lot more than you do!!

And it is all about money. I got nailed last year doing 80 in a 65 (so they said) in NC, received 15 letters from lawyers within 3 days, all offering to fight for me. I had to pay $100 for the lawyer and $181.00: 30.00 for ticket and 151.00 for court costs. The trooper told me I would pay the 151.00 whether I won or lost. You can guess what I did.

[Stuckinda60s]

Brian:

They try to hit a flat surface, like a license plate, to reflect back to the unit. If she wasn't within a distance where she could see the plate, I wonder how accurate the clock was and if she could really have gotten a legitimate clock.

At 79 mph you're traveling 115 feet per second. Traffic systems usually send 100-pulses over 3/10 of a second and pick out the best of the bunch. In 3/10 of a second, you traveled over 35-feet.

All that means that she had to hit an 8" high target at 1600', AND NOTHING ELSE! Throw in the facts that there were other cars around you (you were in a pack) and that you were headed downhill and moving vertically in her plane, and you've injected a lot of doubt that you were the one she clocked, assuming that she got an accurate clock on anyone.

You need to call the officer and tell her you want to see her tapes of your ticketing. Don't tell her that you want to see how many cars passed when she pulled out to stop you, but that's what you want to do. Her camera wasn't pointed at you when she got the clock, but it was pointed at you, and the other cars, when she pulled out. You need to tell her that now before the tape is recorded over, if it hasn't been already. Make note of when you ask her for the tape, then when you go into court you can explain why you wanted it and if it hasn't been produced it will help to cast doubt on the validity of the charge. If it is produced, then you can use it as I said, to show that there were other cars around.

Whatever you do, don't volunteer that you were going the same speed as everyone else or faster.

Good luck!

[69goatboy]

Originally Posted by Dennis H.

My question again, if you were speeding, and you know it, and you got caught, trying to get out of a ticket on a technicality does not make you innocent.

I disagree. Even if he knew he was speeding and there were 39 separate video recordings of him speeding, he is still innocent unless a court declares him otherwise.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Dennis H.

My question again, if you were speeding, and you know it, and you got caught, trying to get out of a ticket on a technicality does not make you innocent.

The mere fact that the "government" is revenueing makes him innocent.

[bird72]

If it was me and I was going what ticket says you were (and I don't hear you saying you weren't):

I would go to court, as said, judge will often lower fine / speed stated / and points. If you show humility and inquire about alternatives to the judge, you may have no points, driving school option. This stuff is really common. Some states have a guilty with explanation type thing... this is where you can say yes, I was speeding, don't think as much as ticket says, rest of traffic seemed over speed limit also, then ask about your options. Humility and attitude is the key. Depends on judge, but you may come out no points and life goes on.

I would be afraid (with my luck) of backfire effect of going in on radar gun technology contest. First, I haven't read anything in this thread that was new or earth shattering to me. And do you think a judge hasn't heard all these type arguments before? Heck, I remember some silly reality show where the guy had a display with little toy cars and all.... You run the risk of pissing off judge, with attempted cleverness in the light of apparent guilt anyway, and you get slam dunk of full fine, points, and what did that do?

I base all that on not hearing you screaming you were framed. Regardless, good luck on whatever you do, and the result will be interesting.

[Region Warrior]

I was past by all the cars in front of me.
Why didnt she pick one of them?

[Jim Scites]

I just found this on a web page.

Lidar Range
Lidar range goes as the fourth root of target crossection. This is a very weak function, and so the range for your state probably falls between these extremes of measurment range to the best and worst liscense plates measured by Tom Bell:
Georgia license plate, by itself = 2577 ft.
Colorado license plate, by itself = 1339 ft.
With no plate- detection range of a Mazda RX7 with headlights retracted is around 800 ft.
No plate, and the lights covered - detection range < 500 ft.

[Brian Baker]

F**k throwing myself at the mercy of the court. This is Montgomery County Maryland we are talking about here...the biggest bastion (next to Baltimore City) of liberalism in the state.

F**k going to driving school...a judge made me do that in Howard County a few years ago on a similarly charged speeding ticket (17 MPH over the limit). I hadn't had a moving violation in more than 12 years before I got that one, but because I had several seatbelt tickets, she made me go to the class in order to get a PBJ judgement. The class was a joke, loaded with derelicts, white trash, drunks, alcoholics and drug addicts that all had the attention span of a 3 year old...we sat and listened while police officers, EMT's and paramedics showed us slides and shared stories of "blood on the highway". Oh, and I was gigged just as much for going to the class as I would have been had I just paid the fine, so in order to keep the license clean I had to pay the full fine AND give up a Saturday for this f**king class.

I'm sick of it all...I'll fight it with every option I have that will help me win.