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#1
07-29-2010, 08:59 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite
"Graphite and graphite powder are valued in industrial applications for its self-lubricating and dry lubricating properties. There is a common belief that graphite's lubricating properties are solely due to the loose interlamellar coupling between sheets in the structure.[9] However, it has been shown that in a vacuum environment (such as in technologies for use in space), GRAPHITE IS A VERY POOR LUBRICANT. This observation led to the discovery that the lubrication is due to the presence of fluids between the layers, such as air and water, which are naturally adsorbed from the environment. This molecular property is unlike other layered, dry lubricants such as molybdenum disulfide. Recent studies suggest that an effect called superlubricity can also account for graphite's lubricating properties." Tom Vaught
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
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#2
07-29-2010, 09:10 PM
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Mick, Sorry for your troubles....what a PITA!!
I'm not sure what your game plan is at this point for a new rear main seal, but I'm fairly certain I have a couple of very old (asbestos) rope seals out of some very old, like 1979, fel-pro gasket kits. I'm CERTAIN I have a 3" version, and will check on a 3-1/4".... Would be glad to help you out and send you one for the cost of shipping if you are interested..... BTW, If I don't get time tomorrow am, then it'll be on Monday as I'm leaving for the Uprising Friday afternoon (driving the Lamnas) and won't be back til late Sunday. Lemme know either way... Jim
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"XE cam basher" 
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#3
07-30-2010, 03:43 AM
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Jim, thank you for the offer, but I installed one of the old rope seals this afternoon and will see how my luck runs this time.
74SDformula, looks like the Buick lost its seal exactly the same way. At least I'm not the one and only on the wrong side of luck. I have no idea whether the seal I installed today was asbestos or fiberglass. I searched back through all four pages of old threads that contained the word asbestos and never did find what they look like. If anyone could post pictures (or direct me if I just missed them) of both early and later rope seals it would be great. I just grabbed the oldest seal pack I had and went for it. I cut up the Napa Gold filters today and after not really seeing anything at all on the filter pleats, I rinsed them off in the parts cleaner using a coffee filter to catch any debris. Basically just trying to get any particles released from one medium to another. The canisters ended up a nice light brown and super clean so it looks like I did remove everything from them. After all that work all that was captured were little black graphite coated particles that appear to be minute specs of the seal. That's a dime in the photo, and while it might look like there are larger chunks, the little pieces are just clumped together and will all separate to little slivers.
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Mick Batson 1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon. |
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#4
07-30-2010, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
No pics here of asbestos vs. non-asbestos, but the easiest way to tell (for me) is the way that they trim....... The old asbestos seals would cut cleanly and precisely all the way through with one swipe of a razor blade....much the way the new graphtite seals trim....... The non-asbestos seals, you couldn't even hardly cut through them even if the razor blade was brand-new...then, if/when you did get through, it left long stringy fibers hanging that you would have to go back and try to trim... Visually, the asbestos seals have a much coarser weave compared to the later seals, but you almost have to have them laying side by side to notice this
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"XE cam basher"
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#5
07-30-2010, 08:17 AM
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"Visually, the asbestos seals have a much coarser weave compared to the later seals, but you almost have to have them laying side by side to notice this"
+1 They look more like hemp rope than the smoother finer fiberglass stranded variety. Before we had any options for the 400 engines, I've managed to pack in the fiberglass rope seals effectively enough to work fine without any leaks. It's still very difficult to cut the ends straight, and you could easily go thru half a dozen razor blades to fit one seal. To date zero issues with the Best seals. We've also used the BOP seals with great success. I always do a test fit to see where the seal is going to ride, and how well it fits the groove, etc, then make a determination as to which seal we are going to use.........Cliff
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#6
07-30-2010, 09:50 AM
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I have used the Best seals on V-8 Buick's, early 283's & 235 Chevy's along with tons of Pontiacs.
I recommend them. |
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#7
08-04-2010, 02:41 AM
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OK, I should have updated my progress days ago. Engine is back together with an Asbestos rope seal and working fine with no leaks. I know it was an Asbestos seal because Cliff reminded me how many razor blades I use on the Fiberglass ropes. This one cut almost as easy as the Graphite one.
I've said it a couple of times, and will repeat that I really think it was my fault for too much pre-load on the seal. Ken Crocie forwarded my problem with the pictures to Best Gasket, and they called me to discuss the seal. Very cool that a company will take the time to contact a customer about a problem. Had a good conversation with Armin and he sent a new seal out to replace the one I fubar'd up. I already had the engine back together and in the car when he called, so the seal will go on the next 455 I do in a month or so. I had planned on starting earlier, but I'm maxed out for awhile after installing headers twice in two weeks. The seal seems to require very little pressure to seal up, and does have problems if the pre-load is too high. Armin recommended that the seal be placed in the groove and really worked in with a socket or something similar so the crank won't bind up on it. My short piece of pipe turned down to 3.25" that I always used in place of working the seal with a smaller roller will need to stay on the shelf. I came away with the idea that the Graphite/Teflon rope seal shouldn't have much more resistance than turning the crank without the seal in place.
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Mick Batson 1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon. |
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