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#21
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Is that a demand?
You don't seem to get it - I am not at liberty to post images of what's not mine. I had access, they knew I took pics, and they knew I may post something here or there, but that's as far as I can go. Visit the "big Pontiac" room for a document that I posted on 1967 2+2s. That item was compiled by Fred Simmonds in 1989 and I received permission to post it, but I also was able to cross-reference some memos and notice a typo Fred made, which I corrected as an addendum. |
#22
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Move it along, nothing to see here, nothing to see..,
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But THANK YOU for driving up the traffic posts here at the 73-77 A-Body Tech. |
#23
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(sigh)
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#24
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Alvin- I don't understand why you are getting in his face. What he said was 100% true. I have seen the docs that he mentioned and like him, was not authorized to release them. There was one document that he was allowed to post and he did. I've got a ton of stories from inside Pontiac I'm sworn to secrecy on. Just because I chose not to prove them on an internet message board doesn't make them untrue.
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Don Keefe, Founding Editor-in-Chief, Poncho Perfection Magazine (October 1, 2015- present) www.ponchoperfection.com Contributing Editor: Collectible Automobile (1999- present) Author: "Grand Prix: Pontiac's Luxury Performance Car" (Released April 27, 2007) "How to Restore Your Pontiac GTO" (Released July 15, 2012) "Pontiac Concept and Show Cars, 1939-1980" (Release Date April, 2016) "Leave the gun, take the cannoli." |
#25
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Book Him Donno!
YAWN
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#26
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Exactly...and that coming from the thread hijacker...couldn't agree more!
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Don Keefe, Founding Editor-in-Chief, Poncho Perfection Magazine (October 1, 2015- present) www.ponchoperfection.com Contributing Editor: Collectible Automobile (1999- present) Author: "Grand Prix: Pontiac's Luxury Performance Car" (Released April 27, 2007) "How to Restore Your Pontiac GTO" (Released July 15, 2012) "Pontiac Concept and Show Cars, 1939-1980" (Release Date April, 2016) "Leave the gun, take the cannoli." |
#27
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Interesting Numbers
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I'm surprised over 5000 non GTO and Grand Am cars were assembled with a 455 engine in 1973. I was guessing the number was lower. You just never hear of anyone owning, or having owned a plain jane 1973 LeMans (2 door), or Sport Coupe factory equipped with the 455 engine .
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73 LeMans Sports Coupe |
#28
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Those 1973 numbers are for all Lemanses - don't forget, the GTO was an option, so they would be included.
For good measure, here's the Grand Prix numbers for 455-4: 1973: 30,561 1974: 18,249 |
#29
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Some figures I've seen elsewhere show only 25 Coupes, and 519 Sports Coupes were built in 1973 with the GTO option, and with a 455. That's over 4500 '73 A-body's (Station Wagons included?) made in some other configuration if that 5106 number is accurate. Interesting information.
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73 LeMans Sports Coupe |
#30
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It shows 2.1% of 1973 Lemanses had the 455-4, so does it make sense?
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#31
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Quote:
Quote:
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http://www.pontiacpower.org/ |
#32
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Thanks for double-checking the hood - it's for 1974. There's no 1973 entry for it. Would like to make an addendum to my original post to clarify but I cannot.
For the M20 numbers, I was correct with 2,424. That's the kind of mistake I've been afraid of - transposing numbers. |
#33
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San Diego
Verification of Pontiac information posted here evidently is a simple trust issue.
My inquiry has been simply to establish the validity of source. To me, Verification is as simple as posting information. Aka: Due Diligence. Request verification = hi-jacking!!!??? So Don says Diego’s info is legit, GREAT. But, let’s start with my original request showing the Hood option as an NACA hood. Where? Lets shine the light on it for all to see and agree that it IS SO. Here is an ongoing thread on that subject: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=653766 If I said a good reliable Pontiac source (Diego for example) had a regular production 1968 Pontiac Grand Prix Convertible listed that PHS has no record ever existed, how would that be valid? Because “that guy” (Diego) says it is so? Obviously not true since it isn’t a regular production “one-year only” RPO 1967 GP Convertible. Consider, erroneous info effect of incorrect information used to purchase that 68 GP Vert or selling it here. What kind of comments and verification demands would be made? Sorry, just asking for more verification other than: If Don sez: “…that Guy Diego’s info is so”…it’s so! Right Don? Maybe if your endorsement had been presented up front, none of this boring dialog would be needed. Finally, when will this information (and verification it is true) be made available to ALL of the Pontiac hobbyist here? |
#34
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Alvin, the mea culpa is a bit late, doncha think?
I've been privy to some neat stuff. I decided to come on here and tell some enthusiasts what I've found. I'm more than aware that some guy on the Internet does not a fact make, so it's up to you to decide how big your salt grains should be. As far as when the info will be made available to the enthusiast, that is totally up to you - you can call the GM Heritage Center and ask them to copy documents for you for a fee. Otherwise, I think it's going to be a long time till concrete evidence pops up for the taking. |
#35
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So...
It can be agreed upon that the correct number for 1973 GTO 4-speeds is 1,113 instead of the 926 number? Any idea of the production number of Grand Am 4 speeds?
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1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey 1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles 2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4 2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4 |
#36
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Interesting turn in the conversation, and verification issues.
I remember a certain '63 SD Tempest that was "verified" in the same manner, because some people "said so", yet there were at least 2 people that proclaimed the car in question ended up in a NJ junkyard within 2 years of its production. And then there was a certain "righteous" car that was in reality a clone, but because a certain person of high regard and respect in the Pontiac community portrayed it as the original at time of auction, it sold for nearly $300K. I'm not saying in every case "because someone said so" isn't enough for verification, but a 40 year old factory document would carry more weight.
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
#37
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"At Fault" Verification Request
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So now, according to you, “I am at fault” for asking for verification? Interesting spin. AND “I am at fault” for asking, my original – still unanswered question: …you have “NACA” Hood documentation, please verify? Quote:
A basic question, in this section, were you posted: 1973-1975 Lemans – what would you like to know? If you “mistyped it” no harm, no foal. No big deal. But why still no answer? If YOU DO have it as NACA from Pontiac, that would be a first to be published! Ex: If anyone else misquoted & misnamed any option on a Grand Prix, I’m sure that there would be plenty of members who would point out the error in that section. Obviously, as pointed out here in this thread, misinformation can cost big $$$$. “I’m not a Pontiac expert, but I play one on TV!” Interesting - In your own words: Quote:
Last edited by Alvin; 09-22-2011 at 10:15 AM. |
#38
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Canamman, could you tell me where your math came from?
If I had the time and fortitude to look for Grand Am numbers, I would have done so. Unfortunately, it didn't occur to me at the time because I was focusing on earlier cars. Otherwise, I'm going to quote myself (again): Quote:
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#39
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The 1113 number has floated around this board for some time. Some books have quoted the 926 number
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1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey 1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles 2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4 2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4 |
#40
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So you didn't derive the 1,113 number yourself?
All I have is the total number that I provided. I cannot confirm or deny any published number that's been floating around, as far as I know. This is partly due to the fact that I only took photos of the 1974 Options and Accessories report, which has a comparison from the previous year's output. The 1973 and beyond numbers I gathered were an afterthought because my focus was on earlier years; I thought it would be neat to find out how many GTs were built, and along the way took note of some other performance options. |
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