[red1975pacer]

My first pontiac was a 69 Cutom s white w black top, second A body was a champane 69 Lemans with a brown top. third A body was a Primevera tan 68 COLOR changed to Meriadian Turq {June 2007 High Performance Pontiac Cover car originaly owned my Mark from Rhode Ilsand. That GTO never felt right with that color change, as nice as it was.Im gonna check out the GTO today. P.S. the 68 Gto was Don Sitts personal ride after he bought it from Mark. I bought it from Don Sitts in July 2007. Im just not a "Resale Red " kind of guy

[Unclesamscandy]

Try to find a Primavera Beige matching numbers car today. Lots of luck. All the odd colors are generally considered "western" colors. They were popular in the rockies and west coast at the time and people on the east coast or east of the Miss for that matter poo-poo them. Personally, I view I feel they are understated and classy. Expresso is bad-ass. It says "I am a REAL GTO." and it says "I am era-correct."

Why was Verdoro so popular in 68 and 69? Because it was the ERA. The color of the car is in the DNA. Changing is such a bad thing. That is how I feel about that.

I already bemoaned my friend changing his Mayfair Maize on Gold 69 Judge to Carousel Red/Black here in the past. I know a lot of people would do that. But how many Yellow/Gold Judges are there, really? Now his car looks like a clone and if I saw him driving it and I didn't know him, I would ASSUME it was a clone. Of course if I saw a Mayfair Maize Judge coming down the road, I would stop and tip my hat to it. I would KNOW it was real.

[red1975pacer]

My beige 68 was originaly delievered to Texas so I would go along "with the Western color thing". Its funny whenever I see a red Judge I also just figure its a clone. Im just a Pontiac guy on a AMC Pacer budget!

[thepontiacman]

My opinion is to leave it expresso brown. It looks good and doesn't look like all the other cars.

I really like unusual colors and they stand out in a crowd.

I have a 69 two-tone paint GTO project,expresso brown with white top/gold int.

[GTOnly70]

Expresso Brown is THE most underrated color for '69 GTOs. Back in the late '80's I was in a GTO club in Allentown, PA. One of the members had an Expresso Brown hardtop with a gold interior. The car was restored to perfection and was absolutely stunning.

The interior of the advertised car appears to be mostly original as well - with the yellowish tinge to the Parchment. Repro sets are way too white.

Being an OH car, my biggest concern would be what rust repairs have been done. But that car appears to be a screaming good deal from the pics. It deserves to be left it's original color - a classy, understated original goat.

[gtohurstjudge]

That's a beautiful car. I think it would be nuts to change the color.......
that expresso brown is gorgeous especially with the parchment interior. Do we really
need any more red GTO's?

[Peje]

Warwick Blue with Black top and Black int.Unpopular combo?(my car)

Can`t get any large picture of the Expresso Brown car but it`s seems fine to me.Can the seller verify that it is matching,go for it.No PHS?

[1969 Ram Air]

Expresso with gold interior is a great color combo.

[red1975pacer]

Really dont think I need to see a PHS on this one. 242 on the vin,or 61 on colorline, dealer is very legitimate seller of muscle cars. I bought my 68 Gold level GTO of him a few years ago. Cant imagine anyone "Cloning a brown GTO" {let the comments on this statement begin!!!}

[mmarx]

Great color combo and looks to be a lot of car for the money. FWIW, I would never buy a Pontiac without getting PHS docs. First...

[Unclesamscandy]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

Really dont think I need to see a PHS on this one. 242 on the vin,or 61 on colorline, dealer is very legitimate seller of muscle cars. I bought my 68 Gold level GTO of him a few years ago. Cant imagine anyone "Cloning a brown GTO" {let the comments on this statement begin!!!}

Why spend the $60 bucks when you can just spend $25,000! Makes sense. However, YES you know it is a Goat, but do you want to be sure that the VIN wasn't from a different tag than the trim tag? Or that the trim tag was not "made up" by Trim Tags Unlimited or AG BAckeast etc? I know a guy who bought a GTO ragtop, and didn't want to buy the PHS. Later he went to sell the ragtop, and low and behold he had a GTO VIN - FROM A COUPE!!!!!!! Yeah, somewhere down the line, maybe in the 70s, someone popped a GTO COUPE VIN unto a Tempest or Lemans Body. He found out when a prospective buyer ordered the PHS, thereby saving that prospective buyer a purchase of a pig in a poke.

No one would EVER do such a thing, right?

I don't care to comment on your color thing. It is a matter of taste and we can agree to disagree. But the above is just an example of what can go wrong when one does not avail themselves of intelligence assets.

Pontiac collectors have a asset Chevy guys and most others don't: the Pontiac Historical Society. I am amazed at someone spending 20+ grand and not the prerequisite package of info for $60.00. It is often a bargaining tool as well. "Oh, the car came with an 8 Track. Now I have to go out and fetch one. Mr. Seller, will you reduce the price $500 so I can restore the car correctly?"



You seem pretty cocksure in a lot of your statements. No offense. This leads me to think you are a young man. Ask old men how they got to be old... They may say this: They got cautious.

[1969 Ram Air]

PHS stands for Pontiac Historic Services.

[goatless]

Unclesamscandy, you do know that you can tell the body style from the VIN, right?
I am somewhat in agreement with red1975pacer, if there are no rare options claimed and everything seems to match up, there isn't much reason to order a PHS. Sure some guys want to know exactly how their car was equipped, but other than that...

[GTOnly70]

Originally Posted by 1969 Ram Air

Expresso with gold interior is a great color combo.

Agree, one of the best color combos for '69 IMO. If you have any other pics of that car I'd love to see them.

[red1975pacer]

At 51 years lold I have been involvedwith Pontiacs since 1981. Yea someone could clone this car, but if i have uncertainaty, I know some of the best Pontiac hobby guys in the country around here. Not "cocksure, but willing to listen to expert opinions if in doubt. Afrter all these years, the one thing I have learned is how to listen to the pros! {If in doubt}

[1969 Ram Air]

Another expresso/gold pic.

[Unclesamscandy]

Originally Posted by 1969 Ram Air

PHS stands for Pontiac Historic Services.

My bad. Shouldn't post after midnight. Not that I ever hear too many acronyms like IRS, DEA, CIA, RFP, DSS, EPA, ENCON, DEC, DOA. But the beer had a decided effect on the confusion between Service and Society. I kind of like "society" better because it makes us all look classy.

[Unclesamscandy]

Originally Posted by goatless

Unclesamscandy, you do know that you can tell the body style from the VIN, right?
I am somewhat in agreement with red1975pacer, if there are no rare options claimed and everything seems to match up, there isn't much reason to order a PHS. Sure some guys want to know exactly how their car was equipped, but other than that...

Oh, I know that and you know that. Do you think the clerks at motor vehicles know that when they register the guy's car? Do you think the yahoos who did it knew that back in 1974 or whenever? See, along the way (this is one of my pet peeves) these cars were molested, abused, used, treated like whores, stripped, rebuilt, retagged, generally treated as something to beat on, and it was all done with a redneck impugnity (I can never spell that word) right outta' the Dukes of Hazard!

What I find strange is that people are so surprised when they find that they car is rebodied, restamped, rebranded, retagged, and basically retreaded . These were not the Crown Jewels of the Hungarian Kingdom. These were peoples toys that they abused at 3 in the morning after they drank 2 six packs of Bud, somewhere in the backroads o Kansas. at 125 mph. When they got wrapped around a tree and BillyBob drilled the VIN rivets to pop on a Lemans convertible that uncle Wayne had with the blown 350, everyone is shocked because he wrecked his ride while drunk back before DWI was considered a serious crime???? So 4 owners later, with neophyte non-collectors in the ownership chain, it isn't until someone looks closer that there is a "Hmmmmmm?"

See the thread here on the "Disinterested Owner of a Rare Car" who had the 455HO with VIN numbers on his dash different than VIN numbers on his title. Do you think the guy cared about PHS? According to the poster of that thread, he still doesn't care.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=734023&page=3

But hey, if you don't need to spend $60 then that is your choice. I understand. But when and if you get a burning, and you knew that the $60 was unaffordable, then it is what it is. If you look at that as telling you things you already know, then you really have made your mind up. All those rare options are always identifiable and easy to see, even when they have been removed. Screwholes and mounting brackets for all of them...

[Unclesamscandy]

Originally Posted by mmarx

Great color combo and looks to be a lot of car for the money. FWIW, I would never buy a Pontiac without getting PHS docs. First...

Why, if you already know it is a GTO? Nobody ever had a VIN tag and a trim tag be from different cars. Ever.

[goatless]

Originally Posted by Unclesamscandy

Why, if you already know it is a GTO? Nobody ever had a VIN tag and a trim tag be from different cars. Ever.

And if you can't tell if your tags have been tampered with, getting the PHS helps how?