[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by mike nixon

Paul sends out reminders, in fact he's GREAT at it and I havea rough time believing that he would smart off to a member.

Mike

i can assure you that had they never failed to send a reminder I would still be a member. as to who I talked to, I don't remember tim dye gave me a number to call and that guy gave me another number.

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

i can assure you that had they never failed to send a reminder I would still be a member. as to who I talked to, I don't remember tim dye gave me a number to call and that guy gave me another number.

If you're still interested get me your info and I will get it to Paul.

Mike Nixon
POCI Great Lakes Board Member
POCI Tech Advisor Coordinator

[Stuart]

The same thing happened to me as musclecollector, two years in a row...I never got any reminders, the Smoke Signals just stopped showing up in my mailbox.

[GTOWAGON]

I was a POCI member years ago all I remember was that it was more about food than cars every event had some food connection that was more important than the cars. Like having a show at a restaurant that only has parking for 20 cars but that was ok because they served good food

[The Champ]

I was a member for a number of years in the mid 90's to the early 2000's. I attended the '96 POCI meet in Moline IL and the 2001 meet at Treasure Island in MN.

Sometime after the 2001 meet I didn't renew.

Why?

As mentioned already - the magazine had little of interest in it.

If POCI had created a website/forum like this - it would have been of great interest.

[fiedlerh]

• I joined in 1978 and let it lapse around 2005 or so.
• Been to a few conventions: Gettysburg, Buffalo, Springfield IL, Bloomington MN, Dayton OH, Quad Cities IL, Grand Rapids MI, St Louis MO, St. Charles IL, maybe a few others
  Some random thoughts.
• At first it was run by young enthusiastic guys. Many of those same guys still seem to run it, but now they are part of the lawn chair crowd. I'm not far behind.
• It was probably the first magazine dedicated to the Pontiac hobby.
• Pre-Internet, I couldn't wait to get my Smoke Signals. It was a valuable publication for information and above all, ads.
• I tried a few local chapter meetings, but mostly got ignored by the "in crowd", so I quit going. The Badger chapter folks were pretty friendly though.
• Always had a blast at the annual conventions. Many memorable road trips, people, and seminars.
• It was always about older restored cars, so they ignored drag racing and newer models for years.
• Our local cruise nights attract more cars than the St. Louis convention did. Good memories of chatting with John Sawruk though.
• The internet made much of the information and ads available for free.
• Slickly produced magazines like PE and HPP were light years ahead of Smoke Signals.
• Smoke Signals turned into a 5 minute magazine.
• The website was badly outdated with a dead forum.
• AFAIK, people won't pay money to see a car website. Larry Kummer, the guy who used to print Smoke Signals, tried to start a pay-to-see Pontiac website. I think it is history, as people won't pay to get information they can find for free.
• I believe they struggled for years to get membership above 10,000. I believe adding GMC was one to be one of the answers.
• Much of what POCI did or does is now available for free on the Internet or via $20/yr HPP.
• The conventions are unique, but I don't need to be a member to see the cars or the swap meet.
• What is POCI's value proposition these days? 10,000 members wont support a slick magazine with paid authors. The convention competes with other shows open to the general public. I wish I had an answer.

[Engine-Ear]

This is an interesting thread. I, too, have thrown my hat into the ring as a Board of Directors member. I joined POCI when I was 18 and have been a member ever since. I agree with many of the gripes cited above...

Whether POCI members or not, I feel a kinship to "Pontiac people".

Man, there is a pot full of ingredients in my head that has just been put on the burner, so I won't have much to add until the stew is ready. Meanwhile, let's hear (well, READ) it.

But two important thoughts come to mind:

1) Please continue to share candid and (hopefully) constructive feedback to this thread.
2) Please do NOT take offense to what is shared here (officers, writers, editors - past or present). This thread may well serve as a priceless soul-searching opportunity for the POCI.

[2manyponchos]

When are the director applications due and who do we send them to? Probably written in SS if I would have had the chance to read any of them in the last 6 months. -Doug

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by 2manyponchos

When are the director applications due and who do we send them to? Probably written in SS if I would have had the chance to read any of them in the last 6 months. -Doug

Here is what was sent to me on November 7 AFTER I submitted a form application in AUGUST containing all of the information requested again here:

If you are interested in being considered for the ballot please complete the following questions. The deadline for responding with the answers to these questions is November 15, 2013.

If you are selected by the committe (Mike Darr, Jack Anderson and myself) you will need to provide us with the write-up of what you wish to have printed in the Smoke Signals about your candidacy and a "mud shot", something similar to a passport photo) no later than November 30, 2013.

Then there was a list of 8 questions to be answered in "resume format". Last time I reviewed 200+ resumes there were a whole lotta formats there, so I was not exactly clear on that. I was approached by members of the administration in the summer and submitted my application according to their instructions.

My experience has lead me to the conclusion that there is way too much focus on the process and not enough communication within or focus on the actual purpose which is the cars and the people. There may be too many people involved in the administration? While I clearly understand the need for some uniformity, putting a truck load of formality in a CAR CLUB is not the way to go. I MIGHT be a little paranoid, but I would say that sending me a request to re-apply a week before the thing is due after I submitted my application that long ago might just be a little political stonewalling. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Combine that with the ambiguous definition of the format and the fact that the board them limits it down to only 2 selections for each region to be on the ballot, and you have a set-up which could significantly limit the membership's ability to have access to and choose the people they want to run the organization and its shape going forward.

Unlike others, I am not going to keep my experiences and opinions close to the vest. This is what has lead to the current situation.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

I am sure there are a good number of you who are members of this organization. Though that number is declining. I am interested to know everybody's thoughts on it. I applied for a board position there and am getting a run-around that is akin to something I would expect in a govt. setting. I am not looking to change the world here, but it looks to me like the numbers are unsustainable and without some younger (under 40) people coming in this thing is going to go the way of the dodo bird. I am not in the under 40 set, but I do remember it clearly.

The organization is asking for clues as to why the membership is declining, and I cited the bureaucracy as part of the problem as well as a website that was like an empty warehouse with a tech section where questions go unanswered for weeks months or never.

In thinking about the future of the organization, I was wondering if there was any interest or consideration pertaining to a collaboration with PY. This could be a benefit to both organizations as they seek to strengthen their membership and security in a world where magazines and private websites are increasingly under pressure. Not sure how this would work, but there is no way to know without some kind of dialog. There are strengths with both that could obviously benefit one another. Don't know if there is any 'history' here or not, and don't really care either. In interest of fostering the future of the hobby politics are not part of the equation - only a way to make sure we connect the knowledge with the need in keeping these bad boys on the road and shining in the sun at shows.

If folks share their experience and criticism here, it will also give them a better idea beyond the criticisms I poignantly illustrated in my re-application, which will likely land in File 13. But, that is beside the point. If they get a picture of what the problem is maybe someone more diplomatic than me will be able to help. I have just seen time and again that organizations die under their own organizational weight when that becomes more important than their original purpose. In this case that would be the joy of working on and driving Pontiacs not paperwork and parliamentary procedure.

The flood gates are now open!

Originally Posted by Deadhead

Here is what was sent to me on November 7 AFTER I submitted a form application in AUGUST containing all of the information requested again here:

If you are interested in being considered for the ballot please complete the following questions. The deadline for responding with the answers to these questions is November 15, 2013.

If you are selected by the committe (Mike Darr, Jack Anderson and myself) you will need to provide us with the write-up of what you wish to have printed in the Smoke Signals about your candidacy and a "mud shot", something similar to a passport photo) no later than November 30, 2013.

Then there was a list of 8 questions to be answered in "resume format". Last time I reviewed 200+ resumes there were a whole lotta formats there, so I was not exactly clear on that. I was approached by members of the administration in the summer and submitted my application according to their instructions.

My experience has lead me to the conclusion that there is way too much focus on the process and not enough communication within or focus on the actual purpose which is the cars and the people. There may be too many people involved in the administration? While I clearly understand the need for some uniformity, putting a truck load of formality in a CAR CLUB is not the way to go. I MIGHT be a little paranoid, but I would say that sending me a request to re-apply a week before the thing is due after I submitted my application that long ago might just be a little political stonewalling. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Combine that with the ambiguous definition of the format and the fact that the board them limits it down to only 2 selections for each region to be on the ballot, and you have a set-up which could significantly limit the membership's ability to have access to and choose the people they want to run the organization and its shape going forward.

Unlike others, I am not going to keep my experiences and opinions close to the vest. This is what has lead to the current situation.

No surprise as to the runaround IMO. POCI is their own worst enemy. Although there are several excellent PY members who are attempting to resuscitate POCI from its' death spiral, the damage has already been done by a few bad Officer apples.

Unfortunately there are also more than a few POCI model specific "expert" and contributers who openly denigrate and ridicule in writing in these very forums anyone who has a differing point of view, or information they disagree with. The '73-77 ABody "angry expert" is the blatant example to me. Others here will show love for the same I wouldn't waste time with due to their constant negative turnoff.

Why would I continue to support an organization with my time and $ run by people I don't like, agree with how they lord over and abuse others here and elsewhere with their condescending "expertise" acid flame jobs. Seems like many of these "Tech Advisors" are auto renewed for life...

For me same website issues, lost password, and bad attitudes with interaction were bad. Larry Kummer was no better interacting regarding password issues, etc. IMO. I was one who called him and identified an past POCI renewal issue that he treated me like I was an idiot until I insisted he go step-by-step with me while on the phone, he on his computer and me on mine; and whatta you know: "Database Error!" So, who was the renewal customer idiot?

I remember past constant POCI "brainwashing" editorials such as to how great Aztec was and "if I cared about Pontiac I should run out and buy one!" and "GMC inclusion is best thing for POCI to thrive" mantra. How'd those work out?

PY provides all of the tech, friendship and support avenues free of charge. Don't like me or others here? Place on ignore.

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by Alvin

No surprise as to the runaround IMO. POCI is their own worst enemy. Although there are several excellent PY members who are attempting to resuscitate POCI from its' death spiral, the damage has already been done by a few bad Officer apples.

Unfortunately there are also more than a few POCI model specific "expert" and contributers who openly denigrate and ridicule in writing in these very forums anyone who has a differing point of view, or information they disagree with. The '73-77 ABody "angry expert" is the blatant example to me. Others here will show love for the same I wouldn't waste time with due to their constant negative turnoff.

Why would I continue to support an organization with my time and $ run by people I don't like, agree with how they lord over and abuse others here and elsewhere with their condescending "expertise" acid flame jobs. Seems like many of these "Tech Advisors" are auto renewed for life...

For me same website issues, lost password, and bad attitudes with interaction were bad. Larry Kummer was no better interacting regarding password issues, etc. IMO. I was one who called him and identified an past POCI renewal issue that he treated me like I was an idiot until I insisted he go step-by-step with me while on the phone, he on his computer and me on mine; and whatta you know: "Database Error!" So, who was the renewal customer idiot?

I remember past constant POCI "brainwashing" editorials such as to how great Aztec was and "if I cared about Pontiac I should run out and buy one!" and "GMC inclusion is best thing for POCI to thrive" mantra. How'd those work out?

PY provides all of the tech, friendship and support avenues free of charge. Don't like me or others here? Place on ignore.

PY should establish its own club / chapters / shows / events as the new Pontiac interest group.

[stevep]

Larry Kummer started Pontiacregistry.com and it is still up and running.

[Txbobcat]

I still belong to Poci but not the local club anymore. Their website sucks really bad. Closing it down would be an improvement. Adding GM trucks hurt POCI. Very few believe the vote was honest. No one I talked to wanted GMC but once the votes were tallied we got them. Early on my membership lapsed as I was not paying attention to the label which had my expiration date on it. At least that is what I was told. There was no notice back then. I wanted to renew but was told I could not have my old number back or the member since was changed to that date. I almost told them to stick it when I found that out.

[Andre]

Here is another story- We started up a GTO club in Palm Beach County in 1993, and grew it to about 140 members. When we first started we were a GTOAA chapter. The club was not limited to GTO's as we had all types of Pontiacs. After a while it was clear that the GTOAA was not doing anything for us except forcing membership compliance so we dropped that affiliation. We voted to try and become a POCI club.

We went thru the paperwork, and got to the final stages which required the closest chapters to give their blessing. The Florida chapter (West coast of florida) was fairly defunct at that time, and gave their okay. The Hurricane chapter which was 70 miles to the south was not that accomodating. When I asked POCI why they would say no, I was told (incorrectly or not) that they were afraid we would "steal" members.

Fast forward to 2013. We are still here, though not anywhere near 140 strong, but closer to 1/3 of that, as for the other 2 clubs, I don't know if they exist in any form.

I'm sure our club was not the first one to be subject to this, so who knows how many other clubs across the country this might have happened to.

[65WJ]

Originally Posted by Andre

Here is another story- We started up a GTO club in Palm Beach County in 1993, and grew it to about 140 members. When we first started we were a GTOAA chapter. The club was not limited to GTO's as we had all types of Pontiacs. After a while it was clear that the GTOAA was not doing anything for us except forcing membership compliance so we dropped that affiliation. We voted to try and become a POCI club.

We went thru the paperwork, and got to the final stages which required the closest chapters to give their blessing. The Florida chapter (West coast of florida) was fairly defunct at that time, and gave their okay. The Hurricane chapter which was 70 miles to the south was not that accomodating. When I asked POCI why they would say no, I was told (incorrectly or not) that they were afraid we would "steal" members.

Fast forward to 2013. We are still here, though not anywhere near 140 strong, but closer to 1/3 of that, as for the other 2 clubs, I don't know if they exist in any form.

I'm sure our club was not the first one to be subject to this, so who knows how many other clubs across the country this might have happened to.

imo a lot of truth here. Other clubs scared of stealing members Fear of the unknown. Have vision to grown. IMO brace the newbie they started for a reason. Reason being old club old way = death.. Get together once a year for all the clubs. share info grow together. well anyway that will probalby never happen.

patrick

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by 65WJ

imo a lot of truth here. Other clubs scared of stealing members Fear of the unknown. Have vision to grown. IMO brace the newbie they started for a reason. Reason being old club old way = death.. Get together once a year for all the clubs. share info grow together. well anyway that will probalby never happen.

patrick

Quite possibly that is what is happening to POCI. Those perceivably "in charge" want to protect their position and in their personal and comfortable interest will let the POCI die as long as their agenda serves themselves. Might be a prime opportunity for an entirely new club or organization.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by PMD1969

Quite possibly that is what is happening to POCI. Those perceivably "in charge" want to protect their position and in their personal and comfortable interest will let the POCI die as long as their agenda serves themselves. Might be a prime opportunity for an entirely new club or organization.

The new President does not operate like that. He wants to make things right. It is not all self-serving as some his predecessors were. He just wants to do what is best for the membership.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by stevep

The new President does not operate like that. He wants to make things right. It is not all self-serving as some his predecessors were. He just wants to do what is best for the membership.

With all respect to POCI, I hear this all the time. I heard this when Dave Bennett was president too.

I was not around for what seems to be a tough time in POCI leadership. So I cant comment on that. But I have to say that it must have been really tough because each leader wants to change the the old ways. Looks like it left a big scar.

[Sidponcho]

This reply does not refer to POCI directly. This type of organization in general just isn't for me. I enjoy my old car(s) and enjoy spending time with my car-guy friends going to swap meets, generic car shows and cruise nights. I do appreciate these club's efforts to "preserve classic Pontiacs". I just choose to do so by keeping my cars and buying parts from the specialty suppliers i.e. PY. Some might say that's not enough, but its a free country (theoretically)

[stevep]

The new president is just trying to do the right thing. Things are changing for the better, but it is no easy task. His contact info is posted, so contact him. I'm sure that he will appreciate it. He is a gentleman and he used to fly C5's!