[My64GTO]

What's the diff between the PF 61 and the PF 24? Is it just the length?

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by transam greg

So can you please tell me what's wrong with Fram?

Well, if you cut open a Fram PH3387A (equivalent of a WIX 57060) you will see that there are only 15 pleats.

The Parts Master house brand version of the same filter has 18 pleats.

My house brand (Pronto PO2222) has 28 pleats.

I sell my house brand filter for between $1.62 - $2.00, depending on whether my repair shops stock them or buy them as needed.

It's not just the number of pleats, it's also the quality of the filter media, along with many other issues. If Fram spent the money they spend on advertising on their filters, they wouldn't be so bad...

Do you really want to put the "orange can of death" on your car?

[Steve C.]

A quick fwiw, my comment on Fram HP series racing filters was not a recommendation. Just the fact they are not the same as the 'regular' Fram filter. There are many of comments made that HP series filters have their issues as well.


.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by The Champ

The PF61 has been superseded by the PF61E. If you find a store that has a PF61, it is just old stock.

Not necessarily.
The E`s are cheaper inside. Plastic end caps instead of metal, etc.

ACDelco doesn't make an "economy" filter line.

Yes they do. It`s the advantage line. If one reads the link I posted above, you will find out that they make 4 lines now.

Not just filters but, the whole Delco parts offerings. You can get cheap or better ball joints, brake pads, etc.

I worked at a Chevy dealer. Even back in 2008, I could see that the old SBC filters had got cheap. You could tell just by looking at em. I think they changed the PF25 to a PF1218 for a small block. The 1218 is a cheap filter vs the heavy PF25.


Bottom line is, an AC Delco filter used to be an AC filter. Now, they`re not. Go to Rock Auto and buy one from each line. You will see, even to a novice, that there is a quality difference.

The "professional" line is the one that most know and love.

[PunchT37]

Some clarity; the "E" does not stand for enviromental though it was designed to be that way... They have "F`s" in this process also...


BULLETIN ACD09-154
DATE: September 2009
TO: All ACDelco Distributors
SUBJECT: FILTER DESIGN CHANGE – PF46, PF47, PF52 AND PF61
Description
ACDelco is implementing a design change on the PF46, PF47, PF52 and PF61 ACDelco Oil Filters due to capacity constraints on the current product design. GM engineers have approved the new design which will begin to be incorporated in upcoming vehicle designs. This OE approved and manufactured filter provides the same Duraguard filtration performance as the previous design and specifically utilizes the original ACDelco media that traps particles down to 25 microns. Additional features include a slightly smaller can, fully covered baseplate, non-metallic end caps and high strength nylon core. This newly designed oil filter has the benefits of not only bringing excellent filtration performance, it is also environmentally friendly with components that can now be easily separated into steel, oil and parts to incinerate, resulting in less waste.
The Durapack versions of the newer design filter have begun shipping. The boxed or individually packaged versions will utilize the available production capacity on the original design, where possible, and will then begin to rollover to the newer design.
Effective Date
Immediately
Order Input
The current ACDelco short number will be used for the new design (interchangeable supersession). The system will automatically supersede to the new design.
Boxed Version Durapack Version ACDelco # Part A/GM # Part B/GM # ACDelco # Part A/GM # Part B/GM #
PF46
88984215 19210283
PF46F
89036836 19210335
PF47
25010792 19210284
PF47F
12490147 19210336
PF61
89017342 19210285
PF61F
89032612 19210337
PF52
25171377 19210286
PF52F
12490148 19210338
ACDelco appreciates your business and stands behind each and every filter that we distribute with pride and confidence.
Nancy Lee-Olender
Senior Product Manager
__________________

[PunchT37]

And one more...

BULLETIN ACD09-187
DATE: NOVEMBER 2009
TO: All ACDelco Distributors
SUBJECT: Cancellation of Classic Oil Filter Design: PF46, PF47, PF52 and PF61
ACDelco is suspending the offering of classic filters PF46, PF47, PF52 and PF61. The re-introduction of the classic filters was announced on bulletin ACD09-174, published in late October.
Any orders currently in the system will be filled, and stock will be exhausted and not replenished.
The newer design will continue to be available boxed from the PDC’s and direct ship from the supplier on the Durapack program.
Part number summary as follows: sorry this is not copying off the PDF!![B]
Boxed from the PDC Durapack numbers
The part number packaging and labeling for these filters are being changed to reflect the ‘E’ suffix. This will be a rolling change that will occur over the next few months. The PF46E, PF47E, PF52E and PF61E are the same filters you receive today as PF46, PF47, PF52 and PF61.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.
Effective Date
Classic filters will be available until inventory is exhausted.
Nancy Lee-Olender
Senior Product Manager


Still doesn`t change the fact that Delco has a cheaper line of parts now for the DYI`er at a lower cost and one has to be careful when looking for good parts.

A Delco part used to be a Delco part. Same as the dealer. Not so today.

[Region Warrior]

There is no "good, better, best, or economy" AC Delco filter unlike brake, suspension, and steering parts.
The stands for "E-core construction". More environment friendly for recycling metal and plastic.

FWIW, the higher oil pressure a filter shows, the less filter media it has.

[transam greg]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Well, if you cut open a Fram PH3387A (equivalent of a WIX 57060) you will see that there are only 15 pleats.

I did not know that. Thanks for the info.

[Blued and Painted]

Fram, much of the internals are cardboard where premium filters are steal. Lots of info on u-tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRg...eature=related

[Region Warrior]

20 some years ago we cut several different brands in half to display in a case at work.
AC-Delco and Motorcraft had the most media and strong internal casing.
Fran and Wix had the least media and weak internals.

[Don 79 TA]

Originally Posted by transam greg

So can you please tell me what's wrong with Fram?

i honestly have no first hand experience of their issues, but there's plenty of material on the internet (and YES if it's on the internet it's ALL true lol )
i've used the HP2 for 20+ years on my TA and the HP(forgot#) on my truck for 10+ years
i've seen thousands of cars with them while working in the shop
never heard of an issue
i've seen the HP used/still used on many builds and race cars etc...

are there "better" filters out there, i'm sure there are

i don't know if they are really as big of an issue as it's made out to be, but i haven't really used them much lately since i went with the KN (little cheaper compared to the HP5) and i use the OEM filters on the hondas we have

i guess it's like a flat tappet hyd cam and oil issues
some people have NO issues, some loose cams left and right....

[JSPONT]

If you cut open your filters when they are removed you can compare them. Less pleats means less filtering, If a filter has no metal ring the filter can collapse too.
By changing a filter, if it affects oil pressure what does that say for the filter?

[Firebob]

Has anyone ever seen a filter material disintegrate and end up in the pan? I swear that's what it looked like was clogging the screen last time it came apart.

[JSPONT]

Originally Posted by Firebob

Has anyone ever seen a filter material disintegrate and end up in the pan? I swear that's what it looked like was clogging the screen last time it came apart.

You should have cut the filter open and checked!!

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

Some clarity; the "E" does not stand for enviromental though it was designed to be that way... They have "F`s" in this process also...

Region Warrior already addressed the "E" and is correct that it officially stands for "E-core" - and they are designed to be more "environmentally" friendly.

Your own posts validates my statement that if you find a store with a PF61, that it's just "old stock".

The part number packaging and labeling for these filters are being changed to reflect the ‘E’ suffix. This will be a rolling change that will occur over the next few months. The PF46E, PF47E, PF52E and PF61E are the same filters you receive today as PF46, PF47, PF52 and PF61.

And RW also is correct about no "Advantage" line of ACD filters.

As to the "F" designation...

All the "F" means is the quantity in a package (in the industry, we call it a Fleet Pack, GM calls it a Durapack. A PF61 and a PF61F are the EXACT same filter - the only difference is the PF61 comes in it's own box and the PF61F comes in a box of 12.

My ACDelco filter customers buy the "F's" because they get a discount by buying a full case at a time. They save over $2.00 per filter this way on the PF61F.

[AdamIsAdam]

Here's the inside of a K&N. Supposed to be a good filter too:

[rexs73gto]

If you have a Napa store around you the Napa Gold filters are all WIX filters that are just a few pennies cheaper. Not much but a little. They are a great filter & I use them only since Walmart stopped using WIX to make there branded filters. The Walmart filter were the the # 3 filter rated by Consumer Reports right behind the WIX brand filter which they made for Walmart. I have been using the Napa Gold for about 3 years now & they work great , I keep 70 psi at drive & 35-40 at idle . Don't use the reg. Napa filter as they are only good for break ins & simple use but NEVER for the long term use like the 3000 mile use.

[mechanickeith]

I have never used any filter on my 61 Tempest except the Napa Gold 1049. I currently have 556,ooo miles on the car. Almost 250K since the last overhaul. Religiously 90 days or 3000 miles on oil changes. Always use Shell Rotella T 15W40 oil. I do have one Fram orange filter. I use it when I am painting an engine. Then its taken off & goes back on the shelf.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by mechanickeith

I do have one Fram orange filter. I use it when I am painting an engine. Then its taken off & goes back on the shelf.

And here I thought there weren't any good uses for a Fram filter...

Why ruin a good filter?

[jd66]

Just did my first oil change with my new motor, the filter I found that works best for me is the NAPA gold #1045 I have Doug's headers and a Lakewood bell, never heard of the Baldwin filters who sells them? If Cliff recommends them they must be good, jd grim 66 gto now a 421