[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You want some of me Bruce ? I dont have time for this at the moment. You know I work nites Right ? Tues through Sat. And I have a 2 day Wally race. That I will make both days. Wallys in all classes Sun and one on Sat.
I like Wallys, I race a actual car Bruce. I have to load my car on the trailer, put it in a neighbors enclosed property, go to work, get off at 1:30, get up and race go to work, get off at 1:30 and race again.
I do not help this guy or that guy a little on the side and call myself a engine builder. Or wanna be builder like yourself. You ought to watch what you PM folks and then act like you are not a hypocrite. Think you can call me out for saying what everyone knows about the big shops and high end porting. You are one of the people who PMed me about Butler having a a guy down the street doing it for cheap. But I all ready knew that from the horses mouth.
You have "delusions of grandeur" my friend. Told me you could have been like Butler of KRE had health issues not been there. Now I do not doubt those issues have effected your life in a negative way. No one wants that. All this pissing contest stuff is nothing when it comes to ones, or ones family members health.
But I sometimes start threads because I am looking for high end advice. People that straight up "know" the questions I have put forth. You always seem to chime in. Your opinion is not high on my list, somehow goes CV or Twin. If I was looking for that, I would ask for that.

Now, let me put this out there. I would like to know the highest NA horsepower on any CV engine, race gas and pump gas. And why this head, with every advantage that it should have on the surface, canted intake valve, cut back exhaust, very high quality castings can not beat even the lowly E head. A head that was originally intended as a RAIV replacement. See, I am a true die hard Pontiac fan who loves to shove it in BBC guys face when you build a "reliable" in line Pontiac engine that keeps up with or beats them. And the idea of this "canted valve" head with our old ex pattern was a threat to making our old inline heads obsolete. It had every chance but has failed. Failed in all out HP, and reliability. I know they do fine if folks 700-800ish HP engines.
And here is the thing, we all like Pontiacs or we would not be here. And the CV crowd is going try and make me seem like a big A hole. There are plenty of cool guys with the heads, Hooter is a cool dude in my opinion, BADDTA another one, another Bird guy I can not remember at the moment. . So you guys are going to try and make it personal with them, its not. But some have smelled to coffee, Rustys head is for sale. Those Mustang CV cars are gone.
Tell me why this canted head can not beat a Edelbrock, High Port or Tiger. It IS APPLES TO APPLES. Plenty of 1000+HP NA engines with them. What do you have, one guy , Fulton. What is the reliability of his engine ?
The most respected guys are the heads up guys. What do they run ? Who does their stuff ? They all know. If it worked they would run it. Why all the free head giveaways ? The top head porters want PAID real money for their services. Kind of makes it hard on them when people get stuff free or dirt cheap. But wanna bet they are laughing in the end.
NA power is king. If the head works there it translates.
Tell me why anyone would drop big bucks on them after they get all the one off stuff only to have less than a basic E head. Remember P Dude going 10 flats, frustrated. Got plain ol std 340-350 Wide Ports and he was mid 9s, just like that.
On the outside the idea is a good one, but executed very poorly. They have the wrong valve angle and I bet valve placement. But I have never asked on the latter. You guys had every chance to redo the head early on. But it would cost real money for the expert advice. So you got a guy fresh out of porting school for cheap or free. The killer is they dont fill the cylinders evenly. Burn plugs and worse with NOS. What happens when heat is uneven on a aluminum mass, cracks. And when the racers come for answers and you have none, they are not cool anymore. So your attention goes to someone else who has not learned. Its about the people getting What happened to Arnies big CV NOS engine ? Did he pay for it, bet not. Did it burn up, you tell me.
Now you want to make a bet? What a bunch of jokers. A bet YOU control. Get the Big Dog Heads Up Racers in your camp. I know of a bunch of broken parts in guys who try and go real fast. You know it, I know it. And if I gave their names up I would not be trusted anymore. They are safe with me.

Its simple, beat them mentioned inline heads, straight up. Prove it not a white elephant head. Has a real use.
I remember all the talk when it first came out. 380 cfm, head porters not needed ect BS. Intake after crutch intake to fix the distribution issues. Port after "I got wings" port after crutch port. It needs cut up, welded back together the right way and new molds made. Then you will have the baddest Pontiac head around. You had your chance.
Prove it, rubber meets the road right there.

Now you guys bang away on your keyboards. I have to load my car, go to work and get up and race.
Have a nice day, remember, its one big happy Pontiac family.

... NO !!!! He doesn't ... I want some of you tough guy, Me, NOT Bruce, NOT Dick, NOT Roland, JUST ME, got it ??? ...

... you were the one running your mouth, not me, so now you got what you were looking for apparently, my undivided attention, so how bout you stop spewing all of your BS misguided propaganda and man up big mouth !!! Put your money where your big trap is at for once ??? Sounds fair to me ?? What are you afraid of ?? Proving me wrong ?? Hell i'm willing to pay you handsomely for the opportunity to learn from you right ?? Based on how you've been running off at the mouth you'd think you'd be jumping for joy at this kinda of opportunity right ?? ...

... if you beat me you get $2000 and the dyno session paid for, what more could you want then that ?? ...

[Scott Stoneburg]

I know Alex and what his combo made. I just wish he could have got it into his car and made some passes.

[Anderson Port Development]

[QUOTE=Scott Stoneburg;5778832]

Originally Posted by 7T2

Jim...sorry if that read like I was critiquing you for not taking advise on the design. That wasn't my intention. I think you've done a great thing. I have spoke to you several times about your heads. I'd like to have a set. But got a killer deal on a set of e-heads already ported and set up. You've always been good to talk to and never made me feel like I was wasting your time on the phone.

... ...

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg

I know Alex and what his combo made. I just wish he could have got it into his car and made some passes.

... yes us too, but ugly personal issues got in his way unfortunately ...

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Dragncar doent Bitch slap anyone most of his post are incorrectly and twisted false statements!


GTO George

... what !!! .. man he bought Jack's Super Duper Eheads !!! ... and now he's Warren Johnson !!! lol

[BruceWilkie]

BTW Dragncar Bill has never taken a Darrin Morgan class.

Ask either one how they know each other before spouting off your "facts" reguritated from PZ folklore.

You've left me with a long list to breakdown while you're enjoying your racing. I'll be breaking it down on the other thread and answering it there as time permits.

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

BTW Dragncar Bill has never taken a Darrin Morgan class.

Ask either one how they know each other before spouting off your "facts" reguritated from PZ folklore.

You've left me with a long list to breakdown while you're enjoying your racing. I'll be breaking it down on the other thread and answering it there as time permits.

... now that is an accurate post ...

[Badbird69]

Okay DragNcar, I will bang away on my keyboard.

First of all, you need to stop reading and believing fake news. PZ is the CNN of the Pontiac world and Gach might as well be Don Lemon. Anyone with a modicum of discernment can recognize all the fake news that is generated over on PZ. Gach has been busted numerous times for creating false debates with himself under assumed names. (It's hard to disguise the same clumsy grammatical errors and misspellings.) There have been times he has been busted for falsely posting the number of hits or reads on a particular thread. Then there are the fictitious counts of people currently reading his various threads. When he gets busted, he goes in and deletes the evidence. All of his narratives have an agenda with a recognizable bias. He takes little bits of information or gossip and twists it to create controversy for his own self serving amusement. He is particularly vicious when someone disagrees with him and is willfully ignorant of the truth when it contradicts his agenda. Instead of having a debate on the issues, he seeks to belittle their opinion, destroy their reputation, their credibility or even their livelihood. Then he just bans them and deletes their arguments, but doesn't stop the verbal abuse. Anyone who cannot see that, simply chooses not to.

It's interesting to read your quotes from your “experts”. Your “experts” said the CV-1's would not flow over 420 cfm. Well, yes they do. Your “experts” said a CV-1 headed motor would not produce any more than 800 hp. Well, yes they do. My motor (which is a nitrous motor – not an all out N/A motor) made 1096 hp on the dyno. You question the reliability? We made over 40 dyno pulls at over 8500 rpm without issue. We pounded the snot out of that thing and it loved it. Have I had some issues? Yup, but most of those were self induced – not the fault of the cylinder head. Did you know that Mike Leech broke all or most all of his pistons at Norwalk last year? I didn't hear his cylinder heads getting blamed for that, did you? No, when you are pushing the envelope, you will break things. It is understood that it goes with the territory. We break things too. We are no different. It's part of the R&D process.

So where are your “experts” now? They have been pretty quiet, haven't they? Perhaps they are the ones with their tails between their legs. I will tell you right now that none of your “experts,” nor those who jumped on that bandwagon, can tell you what the valve angles are on the CV-1. Nor can they tell you what they supposedly “should” have been. Why? Because it was never their intent to help the CV-1's. Their intent was to bury them.

The E-head never started out as a race head. 20 years of development have produced amazing results. The CV-1 head never started out as a race head either. But what do you think 20 years of development will yield? The reason the CV-1's are not on the most powerful N/A motor is because nobody has built one yet. But I wouldn't bet against it.

And speaking of bets, the reason I proposed a dyno test between your top end and one of Bill's CV-1 top ends is because I consider it a sure bet. There is not a chance in Hell you could win that contest – it would be a fool's gamble. The fact that nobody has stepped forward to help fund your side shows that they all know better. I did it to get your attention and prove a point: The CV-1's are far better than you have been led to believe. And: You need to stop reading and believing Fake News.

Hope you win a Wally this weekend,
Dick Fulton

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Okay DragNcar, I will bang away on my keyboard.

First of all, you need to stop reading and believing fake news. PZ is the CNN of the Pontiac world and Gach might as well be Don Lemon. Anyone with a modicum of discernment can recognize all the fake news that is generated over on PZ. Gach has been busted numerous times for creating false debates with himself under assumed names. (It's hard to disguise the same clumsy grammatical errors and misspellings.) There have been times he has been busted for falsely posting the number of hits or reads on a particular thread. Then there are the fictitious counts of people currently reading his various threads. When he gets busted, he goes in and deletes the evidence. All of his narratives have an agenda with a recognizable bias. He takes little bits of information or gossip and twists it to create controversy for his own self serving amusement. He is particularly vicious when someone disagrees with him and is willfully ignorant of the truth when it contradicts his agenda. Instead of having a debate on the issues, he seeks to belittle their opinion, destroy their reputation, their credibility or even their livelihood. Then he just bans them and deletes their arguments, but doesn't stop the verbal abuse. Anyone who cannot see that, simply chooses not to.

It's interesting to read your quotes from your “experts”. Your “experts” said the CV-1's would not flow over 420 cfm. Well, yes they do. Your “experts” said a CV-1 headed motor would not produce any more than 800 hp. Well, yes they do. My motor (which is a nitrous motor – not an all out N/A motor) made 1096 hp on the dyno. You question the reliability? We made over 40 dyno pulls at over 8500 rpm without issue. We pounded the snot out of that thing and it loved it. Have I had some issues? Yup, but most of those were self induced – not the fault of the cylinder head. Did you know that Mike Leech broke all or most all of his pistons at Norwalk last year? I didn't hear his cylinder heads getting blamed for that, did you? No, when you are pushing the envelope, you will break things. It is understood that it goes with the territory. We break things too. We are no different. It's part of the R&D process.

So where are your “experts” now? They have been pretty quiet, haven't they? Perhaps they are the ones with their tails between their legs. I will tell you right now that none of your “experts,” nor those who jumped on that bandwagon, can tell you what the valve angles are on the CV-1. Nor can they tell you what they supposedly “should” have been. Why? Because it was never their intent to help the CV-1's. Their intent was to bury them.

The E-head never started out as a race head. 20 years of development have produced amazing results. The CV-1 head never started out as a race head either. But what do you think 20 years of development will yield? The reason the CV-1's are not on the most powerful N/A motor is because nobody has built one yet. But I wouldn't bet against it.

And speaking of bets, the reason I proposed a dyno test between your top end and one of Bill's CV-1 top ends is because I consider it a sure bet. There is not a chance in Hell you could win that contest – it would be a fool's gamble. The fact that nobody has stepped forward to help fund your side shows that they all know better. I did it to get your attention and prove a point: The CV-1's are far better than you have been led to believe. And: You need to stop reading and believing Fake News.

Hope you win a Wally this weekend,
Dick Fulton

... ... yeah, exactly, that punk will never agree to this challenge, and he knows it ... very well stated Dick

[JSPONT]

I have no dog in this fight. The problem I see (it happened to me to) is when a motor breaks, no one tells why or shares why. I would say mostly because it is a tuner error and is embarrassing. I broke 2 ring lands and screwed my block last year. Little to much boost not enough fuel. My bad, at least I learned.
Point is after Dick ran a great # but broke the car, there was silence on here and then all the speculation starts. No word of what happened.
I think full disclosure would have been better for the CV 1 cause but I understand why there was not.

No one is going to build an all out N/A motor for a $1000.00 dyno test bet.

This site is becoming just like America, divided, but all have the same color heart (Pontiac) Just my .02, but this is entertaining as hell!

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by JSPONT

I have no dog in this fight. The problem I see (it happened to me to) is when a motor breaks, no one tells why or shares why. I would say mostly because it is a tuner error and is embarrassing. I broke 2 ring lands and screwed my block last year. Little to much boost not enough fuel. My bad, at least I learned.
Point is after Dick ran a great # but broke the car, there was silence on here and then all the speculation starts. No word of what happened.
I think full disclosure would have been better for the CV 1 cause but I understand why there was not.

No one is going to build an all out N/A motor for a $1000.00 dyno test bet.

This site is becoming just like America, divided, but all have the same color heart (Pontiac) Just my .02, but this is entertaining as hell!

Let me tell you there are more racers that break on this Pontiac boss then ever gets known about......don't limit it to just one CV guy!


GTO George

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by JSPONT

I have no dog in this fight. The problem I see (it happened to me to) is when a motor breaks, no one tells why or shares why. I would say mostly because it is a tuner error and is embarrassing. I broke 2 ring lands and screwed my block last year. Little to much boost not enough fuel. My bad, at least I learned.
Point is after Dick ran a great # but broke the car, there was silence on here and then all the speculation starts. No word of what happened.
I think full disclosure would have been better for the CV 1 cause but I understand why there was not.

No one is going to build an all out N/A motor for a $1000.00 dyno test bet.

This site is becoming just like America, divided, but all have the same color heart (Pontiac) Just my .02, but this is entertaining as hell!

... That's exactly what we did, we explained what happened the weekend before Norwalk with the micro-switch issue back fire through the carb, showed up with cyl#1 way down on compression, and basically spent Norwalk trying to it to hang on, that was explained just after Norwalk ...

... And yes, I will build this Short-Block for this comparison testing, I've already stated that in detail ...

[Scott Stoneburg]

Probably not what anyone wants..lol..but I'll put my 340 cfm Eheads up to compare against a set of whatever heads. But they're just a semi mild port job. So it would have to be compared to a mild set of brand ?? Heads. I have the heads and matching intake off and ready to go.

[7T2]

[QUOTE=Scott Stoneburg;5778832]

Originally Posted by 7T2

Jim...sorry if that read like I was critiquing you for not taking advise on the design. That wasn't my intention. I think you've done a great thing. I have spoke to you several times about your heads. I'd like to have a set. But got a killer deal on a set of e-heads already ported and set up. You've always been good to talk to and never made me feel like I was wasting your time on the phone.

scott,
thanks for asking the truth about that false narrative (1 of many) that has been floated by the haters for years. i listened to the other head porters (bill anderson, calvin hill, darin morgan) who advised testing the current design before deciding if changes need to be made.
jim

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg

Probably not what anyone wants..lol..but I'll put my 340 cfm Eheads up to compare against a set of whatever heads. But they're just a semi mild port job. So it would have to be compared to a mild set of brand ?? Heads. I have the heads and matching intake off and ready to go.

Problem with that is, say yours vs as cast cv1.1 neither belong on 572 ci motors.

Im eyeing a 4.255 bore 4" stroke combo(@455,x ci) as a possible cv1.1 as cast canidate to pick on LS 454 combos. Could be fun.

[Anderson Port Development]

[QUOTE=7T2;5779002]

Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg

scott,
thanks for asking the truth about that false narrative (1 of many) that has been floated by the haters for years. i listened to the other head porters (bill anderson, calvin hill, darin morgan) who advised testing the current design before deciding if changes need to be made.
jim

... We're already using my 428 build for that exact comparison, just not done with it yet

[gene simmons]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

The reason the CV-1's are not on the most powerful N/A motor is because nobody has built one yet. But I wouldn't bet against it.

Isn't Big chief still going to use them or has his plans changed?
What results has Robin Roberts had?

[JSPONT]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Let me tell you there are more racers that break on this Pontiac boss then ever gets known about......don't limit it to just one CV guy!


GTO George

George, I was not singling out anyone, I know e head, kre, tiger headed cars that break. My whole point was that. I have spoken to Bill before, nice guy that is trying to get something going with our love for dinosaurs (Pontiac). He is not just into heads.

[JSPONT]

Originally Posted by Anderson Port Development

... That's exactly what we did, we explained what happened the weekend before Norwalk with the micro-switch issue back fire through the carb, showed up with cyl#1 way down on compression, and basically spent Norwalk trying to it to hang on, that was explained just after Norwalk ...

... And yes, I will build this Short-Block for this comparison testing, I've already stated that in detail ...

I did not see that post. Bill I was not taking a side. We had spoke about other things besides heads, and I like what you are trying to do for Pontiacs.
The more testing people do the more you learn what you need.
I did speak to Mike Leech (rip), he did break all his pistons with that power, he learned what he needed after that. If you don't have a big bank account and are pushing the envelope, chit will break until you get it figured out. My 3rd build is working great right now.

[chiefbigb]

I waisted to much of my time reading this bull shi+. For such a small comunity we tend to fight to much over trivial crap that means about nothing. Who really gives a dam what heads someone is running? Several of the so called experts here don't have a idea what they are talking about and push a hp number vs valve train life and gasket retention. One and done is fine then right?.