[post toastie]

[QUOTE=dataway;5811885]I'm all on board ... but Telsa has NEVER shown a profit. And subsidies are about to end, so they will be in hole for millions.

Cant pay people if you don't have the money, maybe the gov will see the problem and extend subsidizing?
That supercar looks like it would leave the ground at 200 mph.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

And a layoff doesn’t make it a bad place to work. Pretty much every company has whistle blowers now about sexual harassment and racial discrimination so no dice there either. If they were compensated fairly for the time they were there I wouldn’t say it was a bad job.

If you paid me 2000 bucks a day to come and help finish a project and laid me off after two weeks when it was done I wouldn’t say it was a bad job just that I wished it lasted longer.

There weren't layoffs - there were terminations.

You need to read and comprehend. The only reason "layoffs" were mentioned was that it appears that Musk was circumventing CA law by firing people instead of laying them off.

That's why there are lawsuits against Musk's companies. These folks were fired and not given any real reasons as to why..

The mass firings, which affected Tesla employees across the U.S., had begun by the weekend of Oct. 7 and continued even after the initial news report, sources said.

Among those whose jobs were terminated in this phase, some were given severance packages quickly while others are still waiting on separation agreements. Some terminated employees told CNBC they were informed via email or a phone call "without warning," and told not to come into work the next day.

The company also dismissed other employees without specifying a given performance issue, according to these people.

"Seems like performance has nothing to do with it," one Tesla employee told CNBC under the condition of anonymity. "Those terminated were generally the highest paid in their position," this person said, suggesting that the firings were driven by cost-cutting.

During the performance review period before the mass firings, former employees said Tesla's general manager of services and operations, Karim Bousta, sent out a notice saying reviews had been delayed so employees could focus on ensuring a successful rollout of the Model 3.

Tesla had no comment on these claims, but pointed to its previous statement on the firings, reiterating that they were performance related. Here's that statement:

"Like all companies, Tesla conducts an annual performance review during which a manager and employee discuss the results that were achieved, as well as how those results were achieved, during the performance period. This includes both constructive feedback and recognition of top performers with additional compensation and equity awards, as well as promotions in many cases. As with any company, especially one of over 33,000 employees, performance reviews also occasionally result in employee departures. Tesla is continuing to grow and hire new employees around the world."

[RocktimusPryme]

I did read and comprehend. The article, and you, insinuate they were laid off, and that they used the terminations as cover to avoid giving requisite notice. So I called it what you were saying it was. Your saying they were gotten rid of because the company had to downsize and not for the reasons Tesla or Solar City stated. Im still skeptical. I cant imagine the lawsuits would be cheaper, and they have to know if they cant provide documentation they wont get away with it. Im not saying its totally baseless, just saying Im skeptical.

I still dont get the hate either way. If a average dude took a shot with a small business and failed, which happens all the time, we would pat him on the back and say "At least you tried, more than most people do"

But when its on a larger scale, because this guy already made a fortune, and now is trying to flip it into even grander plans, nothing but shade gets thrown his way.

[johnta1]

I'm surprised by some here with there 'answers'.
Most seemed to be against unions?

Quote from some fired:

“Openly pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted.The company denied union activities played a role in the dismissals.”

California is a Work at Will state I think?

Employment at will simply means that an employer cannot be sued for breach of an implied contract requiring a showing of good cause for termination. It does not mean that an employer may not be sued for other employment wrongs, such as discrimination, retaliation, violations of specific statutes (including those protecting whistle-blowers or employees who take family or medical leave) or for terminations that violate public poli*cies set forth in statutes or regulations.

If Tesla had a union at those places, they probably would require 'cause'.
But I don't think they are union?

Most big corporations don't want unions?

Out of 33,000 employees what percentage was a few hundred?

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I'm surprised by some here with there 'answers'.
Most seemed to be against unions?

Quote from some fired:

“Openly pro-union workers were among those fired this week. Some believe they were targeted.The company denied union activities played a role in the dismissals.”

That indeed would be dirty if true, and would change my opinion somewhat. I work for General Atomics, its never occurred during my generation but Ive heard stories from some of the old guard that it used to be a pointed question during the hiring interview "How do you feel about unions" If you said you were a pro union guy you likely wouldnt be hired.

Again, I will say that I personally know a fair amount of people who have gone to Space X and been very happy. That being said, company like that mostly only takes on skilled labor, well compensated positions, so maybe in a company like Solar City where you have a larger percentage that maybe arent as skilled, more easily replaceable? They get treated worse. IDK.

[Tenney]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/tesl...-bob-lutz.html

https://arstechnica.com/information-...-market-share/

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Tenney

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/tesl...-bob-lutz.html

https://arstechnica.com/information-...-market-share/

I like what you did there lol.

Not picking on GM here since I mostly buy from them, but of course he says that. And about GMs batteries being superior even if he is correct it doesn’t matter. Perception is reality. The public thinks Tesla is more advanced. American automakers put out unreliable cars compared to their counterparts for a couple decades and it took another couple decades to shake that. Maybe they still haven’t totally shaken it.

That being said I’m sorta surprised now thinking about it that one of the big 3 hasn’t tried to release a sporty electric to undercut the Model S.

[dataway]

As much as I love IC engines ... I can certainly imagine myself in an electric when power density is four times what it is today (KWH-Vol-Wt). At present nothing comes even close to a hydro-carbon fuel as far as BTUs of energy that can be stored in a given volume, and a given weight. But I have zero doubt that within 15 years they will be there.

At present I do have an ethical problem with them. Too toxic, and they are no where near pollution free, they merely redistribute pollution from the point of use, to the point of generation ... as long as we are using coal, and oil generation plants. Even when you talk about renewables, Hydro, Nuclear, Solar, Wind ... you are still talking about the redistribution of hazard, inconvenience, environmental effects etc. from the city where the majority of the energy is used to the rural areas where it generated. At least with petroleum, the cities that use the most, suffer the most and it motivated them to change their habits rather than penalizing people out in the country.

As a person that lives in an area that gets 20 below zero in the winter .... not sure how they are going to resolve the problem of vehicle heat in the winter. In climates like this it can reduce range 50%. There are days up here when it's all my V8 can do to produce enough heat to keep ice off the windshield. There are people driving Tesla that actually wear a snowmobile suit in the winter, or use heated gloves and jackets meant for motorcycle riding.

But eventually it will be solved .... but I have no idea where the country is going to get the extra electricity to replace trillions of BTUs of hydro-carbon generated energy. Better start building Nuclear plants quick. Solar isn't going to cut it, people charge at night, and the technology to store solar on a large scale doesn't exist yet. We've dammed most of the rivers already that can supply large scale hydro.

I guess good home solar systems with good storage capacity would help a lot ... charge the house batteries all day, use them to charge the car at night.

Going to be interesting times for the kids.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

I still dont get the hate either way. If a average dude took a shot with a small business and failed, which happens all the time, we would pat him on the back and say "At least you tried, more than most people do"

But when its on a larger scale, because this guy already made a fortune, and now is trying to flip it into even grander plans, nothing but shade gets thrown his way.

The "average" guy didn't get access to $465,000,000 government loans on a business that has never turned a profit (and most likely never will).

If he's so rich, why didn't he use his own money? Because he didn't want to risk it?

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Out of 33,000 employees what percentage was a few hundred?

It's more that a few hundred.

Tesla isn't announcing the numbers, but from CNBC on October 25th:

"The total number of dismissals could not be determined. However, former employees estimate around 1,200 people have been fired in the company's wave of dismissals at Tesla including SolarCity. That figure does not include previously announced layoffs."

The key here is that Tesla should be increasing employment as they have hundreds of thousands of deposits for Model 3's.

They have a huge factory that can easily produce thousands per week, but they can't seem to build more than a few per day.

[johnta1]

The "average" guy didn't get access to $465,000,000 government loans on a business that has never turned a profit (and most likely never will).

The 'average guy' will never get a gov't loan?

Tesla subsidy:

Tesla Subsidies


Now let's talk about some REAL subsidies!

Subsidies



I am all for getting rid of all subsidies.

Imagine how much we would save if big oil paid back their oil subsidies instead of paying their CEOs mega pay?
(trillions and trillions)

[LEGACY_GN]

The hate is real in here.

[dataway]

Probably because this isn't a Tesla forum. Tesla owners looking for love should go to the Tesla forum. Pontiac owners go to the Pontiac forum.

[LEGACY_GN]

Originally Posted by dataway

Probably because this isn't a Tesla forum. Tesla owners looking for love should go to the Tesla forum. Pontiac owners go to the Pontiac forum.

I don't own a Tesla, my daily driver is a diesel truck. I simply respect an American citizen building an American company bringing American jobs to America. I guess he should just outsource all the jobs like GM. You remember GM, that company that killed Pontiac?

Do I love Pontiac cars? Of course. Does that make me ignore GM's corporate behaviour, of course not, because I'm intelligent enough to separate the two.