[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by moontower69

I was watching an episode of Roadkill (Extra) and Dave Freiburger was asked about GTOs in terms of cars he likes. No secret, he's a diehard Mopar guy and also seems to like Fords and Chevys.

This guys charm is that he comes across as a down to earth, meat and potateos kinda guy... but his fame has gotten to his head, and I often find myself irritated with him - which is why I often ignore the link when some family member or friend shares with me another roadkill ect link.
It seems to be to a growing number of people who fall into the camp of "if freiburger says it, it must be true" ...

...He said he NEVER liked Pontiac engines because they have a "design flaw in the lifter valley". ...

His design flaw is weak sauce, because every single engine has it's weak points, to white wash all Pontiac's because of his opinion of a design flaw is well, silly.

...Also, he said GTOs are "just okay, they're just Chevelles".

oh come on.
that is as asinine a comment as I have read in a good while.
Does he say the same thing about Skylarks and Cutlasses?

Sure GM corporate required their divisions to use the same basic arcitecture, but without the GTO, the Chevelle SS would never have happened - I believe it took a full model year for Chevrolet to create the Super Sport package for the Chevelle - which was a direct response to the GTO.
Imagine how lack lustre the Chevelle would be without the Super Sport!?

There was a really good article in Hemmings Muscle Machines recently which compared a Cutlass 442 and a Skylark GS;
It served to give the reader a feel for the difference in feel for driving them ect - the divisions had unique drivertrains which alone change the character in a car.

I say ignore freiburger, and let him harken back to his 'Car Craft' (or what ever Chevrolet dominated magazine he comes from) roots...

[RocktimusPryme]

I watch almost all of the extras as well as the original episodes on MToD. Ol' Dave often gets bashed as a Pontiac hater here and on Facebook. He has said some negative things, that said, many of the negative things he has mentioned I have also seen threads about on here trying to fix the problems. As someone who has seen almost all of that stuff, I have also seen him say that he likes some aspects of them. He is also an unabashed BB Chevy lover, which I think most even here would agree have a leg up on making huge huge horsepower over the Pontiac mills.

I do think he too often puts Pontiac in the BOP world as one, and I don't think Pontiac has near the drawbacks as those two in several departments, including aftermarket support. While I have heard of many poncho owners pumping their oil pans dry, I think oiling is a way bigger problem with BBBs and BBOs.

Conversations like this almost end up being like politics. Where people only acknowledge the disagreements and never want to pay attention to the common ground or listen to any of the logic. I do remember him saying GTOs are just Chevelles. I wouldn't say I agree, but he is also kinda right for what its worth lol. Bottom line is we ALL have opinions on engines, models, and makes that would start fights if you say them to the wrong people. (74 to 76 F bodies are ugly. Im sorry, but you people need to seek help ) Dave has his, but he is famous so its easier to fixate on them. I personally would rather thank the guy for letting me have car shows to watch like Engine Masters vs only having Fast N Loud

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

...74 to 76 F bodies are ugly. Im sorry, but you people need to seek help...

I'm guessing there's an inside joke there;
I have always preferred the single headlight Firebirds over the quad headlight cars, and I prefer the chrome bumper 74-77 Camaros over the rubber bumper 78-81.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I'm guessing there's an inside joke there;
I have always preferred the single headlight Firebirds over the quad headlight cars, and I prefer the chrome bumper 74-77 Camaros over the rubber bumper 78-81.

Not really, I was just jokingly expressing one of my own opinions to drive home my over all point. I actually don't like those years personally but it was definitely meant to be tongue in cheek. I also don't like the 55-56 Pontiac cars with the chrome hood stripe, but love 57s. Point was we all have our likes and dislikes that will clash with others feelings.

Hell I would actually even tell you after building my first gen that I would rather it be an early 2nd gen. I just think they are probably better cars.

[TAQuest]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Hell I would actually even tell you after building my first gen that I would rather it be an early 2nd gen. I just think they are probably better cars.

Whaaaaaaat? Say it aint so. When I drive a 2nd gen, owned a few, they feel like they are just a 1st gens fat sister. lol Some like that.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by TAQuest

Whaaaaaaat? Say it aint so. When I drive a 2nd gen, owned a few, they feel like they are just a 1st gens fat sister. lol Some like that.

By most reports the 2nd gens are just built a little better, less of a rattle trap. Now Im sure part of that with mine is I just started with a rough car. So the windows out out of alignment etc etc. But yeah, if I could take my motor and put it in a 70-73 I would. I don't hate my car, I just think I would like the other better. More head room, more likely to be disc braked, more exhaust options, more interior options.

[ta man]

My shortblock can handle up to 900 hp and 7500 rpm. I'm nowhere close to that.

[Schurkey]

"Car" shows on TV are so painful I can't watch them. I said it before--it's like an animal lover trying to watch the "Put Down Your Pet" channel.

My life substantially improved when I ended Cable TV in '97. More than twenty years ago--time flies when you're having fun.

FUKK TV. NOT interested. For that matter, I spend my listening time with a 5-disc CD player and NO RADIO. No commercials, no propaganda, no Lyin' Mass-Media. I was opposed to "The News" decades before Trump gave it the catchy name "Fake News".

There's a lesson in this...

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

My life substantially improved when I ended Cable TV in '97. More than twenty years ago--time flies when you're having fun..

There's a lesson in this...

We are working towards this, recently I put up a monster attic antenna for good over the air (OTA) reception. There are a large number of channels available these days with the digital architecture- cutting the cord so to speak. I do not like reality TV. We find ourselves watching PBS stuff quite a bit like Create / Nova etc (but not the crap with a political bend ).

[Half-Inch Stud]

Chevy Mark IV 396 used to split up the middle in 67-68, well after PMD won many endurance races in the early 60s.

PMD engine design, and then "allowable power after modifications" just might have been a production parameter that was governed.

[shoebox1.1]

The guy prolly got beat as a kid by as badass Pontiac and that guy got the girl he wanted.. been bitter ever since..

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by shoebox1.1

The guy prolly got beat as a kid by as badass Pontiac and that guy got the girl he wanted.. been bitter ever since..

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Probably true...………….LOL

[Sirrotica]

BTW, after 1969 PMD engineers redesigned the motor mount too to spread the twist from the oil pan rail to the whole outside of the iron on the outside of the water jacket. They also added strengthening ribs to stiffen the motor mount area as much as practical without a major redesign.

Add to that they made the attachment points further to the front so instead of only putting strain on one bulkhead, #3, it was spread to #2 and #3.

I don't know of any other casting changes, but they always used a fair amount of nickel and other alloys to make the block casting material rather robust by superior metallurgy.

The gettin his ass whipped by a Pontiac theory looks more likely all the time...... must be true.

[shoebox1.1]

I’m running with it....

[Sirrotica]

I worked in a buick dealership, the oil pump is a really bad design that cooked a lot of engines over the years. If I remember correctly if you're serious about hot rodding a buick the oil galleys are too small and need upsized too, drilling out from the front to rear of the block.

I've worked on a few buick 455s, completely rebuilt one in a boat tail Riviera, and they run good, but dollar per dollar a Pontiac will get the job done for less money and work. They also go through head gaskets in every thing from a V6s to the 455s. When the head gaskets go it fill the crankcase with coolant, and again takes out the bearings if you don't catch it quickly.

You think Pontiac performance parts are/were hard to get, buick and olds are twice as tough. We have a selection like a SBC does compared to either one of those brands.

[Marv]

I got to spend a bit of time with the Roadkill crew in 2016 when we did the Mighty Car Mods vs Roadkill battle. Dave was a really nice, chilled-out dude who likes that he likes. He doesn't dig Australian cars because we have a lot of 4drs and no factory big-block options, boo-hoo I am so upset. He gave me a lot of stick when I told him I was selling my '68 440ci RoadRunner to concentrate on my '64 Bonneville project (an "old man's car" according to Roadkill crew), but then I gave him a lot of stick for liking those B-Body Chryslers that drive as well as a wheelbarrow full of wet cement. There was lots of good banter and (in person) he is quick to accept the drawbacks of his favoured engines.

It's just car guy things and I reckon people on here need to be less prissy about one guy's opinions. I mean, do you start sooking when some random at the BBQ is into rotaries, or turbo late-model 6-cylinder engines rather than old V8s?

[unruhjonny]

/\ that's all fair, but between takes, and what's left on the cutting room floor, he has to know that crap he says will occasionally ruffle feathers;
"design flaw" that's pure crap.
As I tried to say earlier, somewhere along the line, his fame seems to have gone to his head...

I'm mostly with Schurkey, I killed cable somewhere north of a decade back... but that doesn't prevent these videos from finding their way to my email/browser...

[Marv]

He knows, and doesn't care (and why would he?).

His fame hasn't gone to his head from what I can see, and I know guys who talk to both he and Finn on the regular. They're just dudes who don't drink the Pontiac kool-aid.

Should I be upset that my favourite musicians don't dig Pontiacs, too? What if they don't like my favourite food? Heavens to Betsy!

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Marv

He knows, and doesn't care (and why would he?).

His fame hasn't gone to his head from what I can see, and I know guys who talk to both he and Finn on the regular. They're just dudes who don't drink the Pontiac kool-aid.

Should I be upset that my favourite musicians don't dig Pontiacs, too? What if they don't like my favourite food? Heavens to Betsy!

The internet just likes to hate dude. Its what it does lol.

And you are right. Why would he care? Any reasonable person knows you cant please all 10 people at a dinner table. How are you going to please the entire car enthusiast world. I think his opinions are what they are, we just know more about them because of the increased exposure. I don't think that constitutes "going to his head." People are just more aware of his positions.


The only thing I have ever heard him repeatedly try to use his "influence" for is "Don't get it perfect, just get it driving".

There is so much now of him out there that I have heard him both praise and lament pretty much everything. I have also seen his passion for hot rod history. I guarantee you if he was looking at an early MT Challenger with the twin Pontiacs he wouldn't scoff at it because it was a Pontiac.

Im sure it sounds like Im a lawyer for the guy, but I just think people are unreasonable. It seems to me that we as a society are more and more black and white, you are either with me or against me these days. The world is a lot more gray than that. There are something like 7 billion completely unique individuals on this planet, if you only like those who agree with you about everything......sure seems lonely.

I did like one of this Q&A answers once. He was asked about motor swaps, and brand loyalty. His response was in paraphrase, "I have zero brand loyalty when it comes to engines in cars" He then went on to say "The one place I think its cheesy is to swap a Chevrolet into a BOP car"

[krisr]

For those of us that don't get offended because the wind changed directions, what episode of Roadkill Extra are you referring to @moontower69. I'd like to watch for myself before formulating an opinion