[sdbob]

That's really nice. Congratulations.

[mkpontiac]

No problems with detonation then? Looking through many posts over the years it seems many of those who have success with those pistons are using the 068 cam. Is the engine in a car yet or was it on an engine dyno? Glad to see another successful combo.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I enjoy the class very much. You have to really keep a close eye on what's going on because the student's provide the engine and the parts. Of course you never want bad results or worse, some kind of actual failure, which is rare. The students have a written plan when they come into class, with goals, uses for the engine, and a budget. Once approved, away they go. Wide, wide variety of engines and I love that. Lowest HP engine we ran on the dyno was an accurate replica of the first Wright Brothers engine for powered flight. This was done in 2003 for the 100th anniversary of flight. The replica was an aluminum cast block, gravity water cooled as original. It made 11.8 HP and it did fly a couple months after being on the dyno. Extremely pleased with that project. On the flip side we had a twin turbo Big Block Chevy over power our dyno at 3500 RPM's. At the time, we could only absorb torque to calculate 1000 HP. We have since upgraded to 1500. This is the 25th anniversary of the "High Performance" engine courses at the college. I started the program with a valve grinder, a wet surfacer, stone seat grinder and a mill. This semester student ages were from 17 years old to 83. Oldest engine a model A Ford. Newest was a 6.0L LS. Interesting mix this year, Ford 385 series stroked to 541, Ford real Boss 302, Chrysler 426 Hemi, 440, 3.9L V-6 for a Dakota, 2 LS engines, 2 Small Block Chevies, 1 Studebaker V-8, 1 inline 6 Studebaker, 1 Pontiac 400, 1 Toyota Supra Turbo. Few others. A really nice mix. As a retired "re-hire" I do this stuff almost for free. But I do enjoy it and I have a great co-instructor who is a Ford specialist. So it all works out. He was primarily responsible for our 3 engine masters entries. We placed in the top 5 every time and had one 2nd with a Ford of course. BTW, the entire course is 320 hours. 10 hours a week for 32 weeks. So there is plenty of time to do a nice job on a single engine project. Start second week of August and finish Early May. With about a month off around Christmas.

That sounds like a good time with good people and good subject matter.
Fine job in keeping more gear heads coming and giving the old ones a outlet.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by mkpontiac

No problems with detonation then? Looking through many posts over the years it seems many of those who have success with those pistons are using the 068 cam. Is the engine in a car yet or was it on an engine dyno? Glad to see another successful combo.

This was an engine dyno and pretty noisy. Only severe detonation would be detected or damage to the spark plugs. So we were safe with the timing. Also the dyno was run at 170-180 degree constant water temp. Owner was warned of potential detonation with these pistons and to listen carefully once installed in the car. Students provide their own parts within their budgets. We provide guidance and explanations. He is a "cars and coffee" guy. It should be fine for his purpose.

[J GLASGO]

Excellent results! Especially with those awful pistons!!

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

.


Owner was warned of potential detonation with these pistons

Did you guys "zero" deck the block?


Did you calculate a compression ratio?

[Elarson]

Years ago, I took the Grocery Getter to a charity car show. Mike could not attend. I was approached by a mid-20's guy who introduced himself as a previous student of Mike's. His statement to me..."Mr. Garblik is 5 times better than any other teacher at Sinclair. We know, because of this car (pointing to the GG) that nothing he says is BS".

I love retelling that story.

Eric

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Elarson

Years ago, I took the Grocery Getter to a charity car show. Mike could not attend. I was approached by a mid-20's guy who introduced himself as a previous student of Mike's. His statement to me..."Mr. Garblik is 5 times better than any other teacher at Sinclair. We know, because of this car (pointing to the GG) that nothing he says is BS".

I love retelling that story.

Eric

Thats a heart warming complement.

[Skip Fix]

As far as detonation my RAIV 400 had no audible detonation on pump gas nut as he said dyno is loud. Picked up 8 HP on race gas. Zero deck TRWs 69cc chamber.

[mgarblik]

I remember the block being squared in the surfacer, but I just can't remember if it was zero decked. I don't think he had the pistons at the time so I tend to think no. If I recall, we were a little surprised the heads cc'd at around 74 CC's after making them flat. I think the calculated compression ratio was right at 10:1. The rods were slightly short as they needed a fair amount of grinding to resize them properly. Overall, not absolutely optimal, but still a good serviceable engine. Had nice oil pressure, 59-62 PSI through every pull.

[grandam1979]

That’s a great stock rebuild nice work.

[steve25]

Note that picking up hp when going over to race fuel can also partially mean the race fuel specific gravity was more in line with what the jetting was, not only the need for more octane.

[Formulajones]

Neat build and decent power for what it is.

Probably just fine on detonation. If it were a problem even in a noisy engine dyno room, you would have seen it instantly on the dyno graph anyway. When they detonate the torque graph drops like a rock, very noticable. In the car with substantial heat may change things but if kept under control it'll probably be fine.

My RAIII 400 is 10.13:1 with the 068 and it's been running fine on the 91 cat pee gas we have for years and likes 34 degrees of timing.

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I remember the block being squared in the surfacer, but I just can't remember if it was zero decked. I don't think he had the pistons at the time so I tend to think no. If I recall, we were a little surprised the heads cc'd at around 74 CC's after making them flat. I think the calculated compression ratio was right at 10:1. The rods were slightly short as they needed a fair amount of grinding to resize them properly. Overall, not absolutely optimal, but still a good serviceable engine. Had nice oil pressure, 59-62 PSI through every pull.

Mike, Did the 400 have the stock cast rods? I think it did really well for what it is. Good job to you and your student!

Dennis

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

Mike, Did the 400 have the stock cast rods? I think it did really well for what it is. Good job to you and your student!

Dennis

Yes to cast rods, sort of. The engine had been previously worked on. Was standard bore but had an odd mix of several different runs of cast rods in it. Some were the typical cast rods with the support ribs near the big end we are all familiar with.. But 2 or 3 were of the early cast design from the mid 60's without the ribs. They were all different weights and lengths. So we swapped them out for a complete cast set that were "factory matched", and went from there. New ARP bolts, cut and honed. IMO, just hard to make a case for cheap aftermarket rods in an engine that is done making power at 5000 RPM's. Low cost cast pistons and pressed pins, still adequate for the purpose and build. Millions of those rods are out there doing their thing without poking holes through Pontiac blocks. Now running this combination to 6200 RPM's over and over like a SBC, and all bets are off. Owner made it clear this was a street only build. Cruise around on the weekends, run it through a couple gears every now and then.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I remember the block being squared in the surfacer, but I just can't remember if it was zero decked. I don't think he had the pistons at the time so I tend to think no.

Interesting, the 8 valve relief pistons are manufactured with different compression heights to keep the compression constant for each over bore size. The extra set of valve reliefs subtract a few CC's also.

Originally Posted by mgarblik

IMO, just hard to make a case for cheap aftermarket rods in an engine that is done making power at 5000 RPM's. Low cost cast pistons and pressed pins, still adequate for the purpose and build. Millions of those rods are out there doing their thing without poking holes through Pontiac blocks.

Agree!

[77 TRASHCAN]

I'm sure that all builds there get the max treatment concerning all build details. Removing sharp edges on piston tops and combustion chambers. Making sure the cam is dialed in. Checking all the lifters in each bore to make sure you don't have a "sticker". Preoiling the engine. Proper valve lash. Carb prep for a dyno pull.

There's many more but, I'm thinking this enging had a "Great" chance because of the instruction passed down from the teacher.

I asked a lot of questions of my engine builder. Had them written down when I made a visit. He moved to another part of the state, and doesn't build common engines any more. I see him at NHRA events but don't talk to him much there, knowing how focused he is at a race...