Tell Bob Lutz what you think of the GTO - Page 22 - PY Online Forums

nikivee1954 · #**421** 06-02-2005, 06:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NikiVee1954:
OC Crusin. Do some research.

[QUOTE]Uhhh, the context of my post was how could anybody claim to have known me if I was never there, not if such a place actually existed or not as you erroneously assumed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You made the statement that the OC cruise was just BS.

Where did I say that dipstick? I'm sure the OC cruise is probably one of the finest in the country with some serious muscle on hand. Of course since I've never been there it wouldn't be fair for me to comment on it or make assumptions on the participants, now would it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

boy you are dense. LOL!

This is what you said.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Wrong state pal...never heard of O.C. You're obviously making that up. Whos' the fraud now?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tripower455 · #**422** 06-02-2005, 07:30 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what did i claim to know about? that post of mine was common knowledge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may be "knowledge", by some deifitnions, but it ain't common. Even on this board......

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">what part of the car is pontiac (other then the badge)? ive asked you this question i dont know how many times and i yet to have a answer.
yeah i know about the 64 being a tempest with a bigger motor but all the parts were pontiac. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, since we're being literal, a LOT of the parts in the '64 weren't Pontiac per se. There were parts made by AC Delco, Guide Lamp, Fisher, oh, and if you got a 3 speed, FORD!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">why does a car have to be a 2 dr to compete? why does it have to be RWD ? i can name imports that have less cylinders that are just as fast if not faster (both 0-60 and 1/4mile), can handle better, you cant find a uglier car then the new GTO so its not hard to look better. that should be embarassing. keep on bragging about your 400 HP GTO but keep in mind that dont mean anything if a import can hang with if not beat the GTO in any area you want to compare. id love to tell Mr Clutz this </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might as well tell Mr. Delorean too (go to a seance), since all of these these imports (whatever they are), including the new GTO, will beat your classic Chevelle....... badly......

Oh, and you brought it up........ again.........

So, what factory hi performance parts are you going to use in your 428? Cuz, if you use any aftermarket parts, then it won't be a Pontiac anymore. Actually, it's not really a Pontiac, since your car was NEVER available with that engine!

For example, if you use a Comp Cams cam/valvetrain, then your 428 will then be a Chevy, since the CC makes far more Chevy cams than any other type.

Jeff R · #**423** 06-02-2005, 09:10 AM

What was the topic of this thread again? Oh, I remember now.

Hey, Bob Lutz! I think the new GTO is a fantastic modern muscle/performance car. Love the power, torque, fit & finish and especially the seats and the SEG. Thanks for bringing this car to us from down under.

red70goat · #**424** 06-02-2005, 04:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NikiVee1954:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NikiVee1954:
OC Crusin. Do some research.

[QUOTE]Uhhh, the context of my post was how could anybody claim to have known me if I was never there, not if such a place actually existed or not as you erroneously assumed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You made the statement that the OC cruise was just BS.

Where did I say that dipstick? I'm sure the OC cruise is probably one of the finest in the country with some serious muscle on hand. Of course since I've never been there it wouldn't be fair for me to comment on it or make assumptions on the participants, now would it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

boy you are dense. LOL!

This is what you said.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Wrong state pal...never heard of O.C. You're obviously making that up. Whos' the fraud now?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BillyBobJimmyJoe: My context in that he was making up the assumption that people @ the OC Cruise knew who I was. Never been there. So how could anybody say they knew me? Why do you even care? If I were you given that you are one of the GM Monaro Glee Club Elites' main cheerleaders I'd be more concerned if the geniuses @ Beavis and Lutzhead Inc are going to continue to butcher the GTO with it's eventual demise in 07.

rabon008 · #**425** 06-02-2005, 04:41 PM

I agree, Jeff.

PS to Bob Lutz: Drop a LS7 in it next year, use the HSV front fascia, widen the rubber a bit and slap Judge badges on it and your masterpiece will be complete.

Anyone want a 500 HP GTO?

red70goat · #**426** 06-02-2005, 04:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ozzy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeff R.:

Come on Red70, just post a pic already... The car can even be in pieces for all we care...

Yeah right. The GM Monaro Glee Club Elite would love to able have something of mine to pick apart and criticize. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's ok for you to "pick apart and criticize" our goats,

Not really. I think GM made a worthy modern day musclecar in the GM Monaro. My criticism is not aimed at the car itself or those who own one but rather GMs half assed attempt to ressurect an icon and the self admitted alineation of a loyal consumer base. I only pick on those who think they are somehow more enlightened by mere ownership as opposed to those who own one for pure enjoyment. To the latter I salute you.

skepecs · #**427** 06-02-2005, 05:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I only pick on those who think they are somehow more enlightened by mere ownership as opposed to those who own one for pure enjoyment. To the latter I salute you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think it's safe to say that the majority of new GTO owners bought (or leased or stole,borrowed, ect.)their cars for the performance and muscle they offer. G.M. could have called it the Tempest and it would still have gotten good sales. The fact that it is called the GTO is moot.

red70goat · #**428** 06-02-2005, 07:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steve kepecs:

The fact that it is called the GTO is moot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My point exactly. Apparently GM thought so as well giving little thought or effort as to what vehicle in their existing inventory they could slap a GTO moniker on. This isn't 1964. What may have worked then given the lack of generics between foreign and domestic manufacturers doesn't work now. People wanted a new GTO, not a rehashed Monaro or any other car from an already bloated and uninspired inventory.

rabon008 · #**429** 06-02-2005, 10:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steve kepecs:
I think it's safe to say that the majority of new GTO owners bought (or leased or stole,borrowed, ect.)their cars for the performance and muscle they offer. G.M. could have called it the Tempest and it would still have gotten good sales. The fact that it is called the GTO is moot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree Steve. Of course this is just my view but here's what I consider such an obvious timeline that it was fate for the new Pontiac GTO to be re-born from the re-born Monaro -
Timeline=
1964 - Tempest/LeMans gets GTO option.
60's - GTO becomes a popular almost mythical legend in America and abroad mainly because of its affordability and the fact that it has some of the best available GM engines.
1968 - The Australian Monaro is created based on the GTO model (and with some resemblance thanks to the Pontiac/Chevelle template).
70's - Monaro becomes a legend in Australia and abroad.
1974 - Mis-management and changing public needs/wants causes the GTO to be discontinued.
1979 - Mis-management and changing public needs/wants causes the Monaro to be discontinued.
2002 - Holden revives the Monaro by putting the best available GM engine in a 2+2 RWD coupe.
2004 - GTO is revived using the Monaro template.

What other available 2+2 RWD coupe could carry the history? Create an entirely new (but yet retro looking) platform? That's certainly not keeping with GTO tradition.

To be like the original, GM "re-badged" an existing RWD 2+2 coupe and stuck its best V8 in it. Had GM re-badged a Monaro as anything other than a GTO it would have been disrespectful to the traditions of the Monaro and the GTO. This is also why Holden makes the "HSV GTO" equipped with the LS2 for Australian consumers.

This is the heart of the dispute between new GTO supporters and bashers on this forum: The bashers don't want it called a "Pontiac GTO". Somehow it is "unworthy" in their opinion. Nevertheless, I have yet to read one valid reason why it is unworthy.

rabon008 · #**430** 06-02-2005, 11:01 PM

1968 Monaro -

rabon008 · #**431** 06-02-2005, 11:05 PM

An LE Coupe from 1976...basically a "Holden GTO"...

rabon008 · #**432** 06-02-2005, 11:15 PM

1970 Monaro -

red70goat · #**433** 06-03-2005, 12:41 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabon:

Had GM re-badged a Monaro as anything other than a GTO it would have been disrespectful to the traditions of the Monaro and the GTO.

Who gives a rats ass what's disrespectful to a Monaro? ( New ad illustrating GMs joint effort with Holden. PETA is furious.)

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**434** 06-03-2005, 01:51 AM

you- Actually, since we're being literal, a LOT of the parts in the '64 weren't Pontiac per se. There were parts made by AC Delco, Guide Lamp, Fisher, oh, and if you got a 3 speed, FORD!

me- thats ok if your 04/05 has a/c delco,guide lamp,fisher that makes it a pontiac. my car is a pontiac because it was made in pontiac michigan,and has a pontiac engine. can you say the same? i didnt think so at least for the chevy imposter.

you- You might as well tell Mr. Delorean too (go to a seance), since all of these these imports (whatever they are), including the new GTO, will beat your classic Chevelle....... badly......

me- what wouldntbeat a chevelle ? or who dont own a chevelle ? thats why i have a PONTIAC not a chevy/holden/import.

you-So, what factory hi performance parts are you going to use in your 428? Cuz, if you use any aftermarket parts, then it won't be a Pontiac anymore. Actually, it's not really a Pontiac, since your car was NEVER available with that engine!

me-the 428 in my car is a pontiac engine and not a "GM" ( chevy )powertrain part like the 04/05. can you say the same ? i didnt think so.
since the tranny going in your real gto isnt factory. did those pontiac heads come on that motor ? i guess its not a true pontiac according to your theory. so what if i dont have a numbers matching car its still a pontiac motor and not a chevy. try again.

you-For example, if you use a Comp Cams cam/valvetrain, then your 428 will then be a Chevy, since the CC makes far more Chevy cams than any other type.[/QUOTE]

me-so the cam i bought from comp makes my engine a chevy even if chevy never made a 428 ? what would your cam be listed under? import?chevy?holden? cmon man i think you can do better then that. get real. if you guys that own 04/05's on here talk bad about imports then why do you own one ?

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**435** 06-03-2005, 01:57 AM

[/QUOTE]

<Typing slowly so you won't miss it:>

T h e w h o l e c a r !

keep typing real slow and tell me what is avaliable on your pontiac gto and only your pontiac gto ? other then the badges. hell the car was made in australlia my real gto was made in pontiac michigan. why dont you get a fart cannon for it and a body kit then you will fit in with the imports. cant forget the wing and all the stickers.

Mr_GTO · #**436** 06-03-2005, 02:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

<Typing slowly so you won't miss it:>

T h e w h o l e c a r !

keep typing real slow and tell me what is avaliable on your pontiac gto and only your pontiac gto ? other then the badges. hell the car was made in australlia my real gto was made in pontiac michigan. why dont you get a fart cannon for it and a body kit then you will fit in with the imports. cant forget the wing and all the stickers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know you've lost the argument when you start mentioning fart cans and body kits for the new GTO. Too bad it will still smoke your OLD REAL PONTIAC and get double the gas mileage with the AC one doing 80mph and has a interior BMW would be envious of.

You keep driving your old Pontiac. I'll take the new one to drive everyday thank you very much.

Jeff R · #**437** 06-03-2005, 02:50 AM

Boy, you sure do like to say Pontiac Michigan, don't you. My '70 TA was made in Van Nuys California. Does that mean it's not a Pontiac, because it wasn't made in Pontiac Michigan? It's also got quite a few original parts made in Canada and Mexico and other places around the world. Doesn't mean squat. All that matters is the VIN and the company that stamped their name on it and marketed it...that would be Pontiac. Same goes for the GTO, new or otherwise. Most Pontiacs on this planet would not be Pontiacs by your standards. News flash...Pontiac is dead, 100% made in the USA is dead, the GM we all grew up with is dead. This is the 21st century, welcome to a global economy and get over yourself. I love my TA and all my childhood Pontiac memories, don't get me wrong. But if there ever was a car worthy of wearing the GTO badge, it's this new one. It kicks ass in every possible way. Holden is what Pontiac was. The old cars are great and always will be, but the rest of the world has moved on and so have I.

Oh, and by the way...

What was the topic of this thread again? Oh, I remember now.

Hey, Bob Lutz! I think the new GTO is a fantastic modern muscle/performance car. Love the power, torque, fit & finish and especially the seats and the SEG. Thanks for bringing this car to us from down under.

skepecs · #**438** 06-03-2005, 05:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is the heart of the dispute between new GTO supporters and bashers on this forum: The bashers don't want it called a "Pontiac GTO". Somehow it is "unworthy" in their opinion. Nevertheless, I have yet to read one valid reason why it is unworthy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I NEVER said the new GTO is unworthy of it's name. I own one and I call it GTO all the time!Proudly!

Merdin · #**439** 06-03-2005, 07:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

keep typing real slow and tell me what is avaliable on your pontiac gto and only your pontiac gto ? other then the badges. hell the car was made in australlia my real gto was made in pontiac michigan. ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, so the typing slowly worked, I just stopped doing it too soon in my post. You obviously missed the rest of my post, or couldn't undestand it. I'll try again with a shorter version:

H O L D
Y O U R
B R E A T H
F O R
A
1 0 0 %
U S - M A D E
A N Y T H I N G !

Welcome to the 21st century...

Merdin · #**440** 06-03-2005, 07:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

... tell me what is avaliable on your pontiac gto and only your pontiac gto ? other then the badges. .. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wouldn't be fair to bust you for picking parts of my post to respond to and do the same, so I'll answer your pointless, inane question:

So the answer to your question is: I have a LS1 powered 2+2, rear wheel drive, independent rear suspension, 6-speed, left-hand driver. Name another car in the world that has all those things. You can't.

Get over it. It's a Pontiac GTO. As much as yours is.

Damn - I should haved typed this slowly too.