[Va68goat]

promptcritical,

I called MSD and their initial reaction was that the warranty had expired and they would make the repair for $135. Paul and Jeff were able to get the distributor fixed at no cost from MSD. I did call them back and spoke to someone that was supposed to be a manager and I explained to them what had happened. The "manager" said since the distributor was worked on to re-curve it and an aftermarket gear was added, it would be unlikely to recoup any cost. Since the distributor was knocking at first start in Virginia, I'm sure it just wasn't caught during the dyno in Arizona. I've never been to a dyno but Paul explained to me how loud it is!

[Richie Hoffman]

None of these companies stand behind there stuff it’s the end users problem I’m so tired of being the person who fixes these problems just my parts are crap rant

[gtofreek]

I've been thinking about the windage tray thing. Now I question whether the rod bolts were actually hitting the windage tray once the engine was running. Even Hywaystar said he could not hear it hitting when turning the engine over. I shimmed the tray at the shop when I first built it. I shimmed it because it was obviously hitting the rod bolts when I just bolted the tray to the main caps. When it hit then, it would have left marks where it hit. That's why I shimmed it in the first place. After they shimmed it more, the noise was still there. But the witness marks where on the tray already because it was hitting when I first installed it. I think everyone just assumed because there were witness marks that it was still hitting, but those witness marks would not have gone away after I initially made them. I don't think it was ever hitting after the engine was running. The witness marks are so faint and minor, that I bet the shims I installed was enough to make it clear just fine. But at this point, that's all water under the bridge. Now I just need to get it back together so it can be enjoyed.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Now I just need to get it back together so it can be enjoyed.

Guessing the OP is having too much fun finally getting to drive it to post on here.

Clay

[Va68goat]

Hey Paul, I was just referring to the text that you sent me that mentioned how loud a dyno room was and the knock may be difficult to hear. I went back and spoke to the owner of the shop and the guy that hooked up the electrical work. I questioned them about driving the car prior to me hearing the motor and they said they didn't drive it hard. He drove it less than an 1/8 mile and turned around. Even if for some reason they did drive it hard, they didn't do anything that I wouldn't do or expect that motor to handle. This is a pretty respectable car shop that does a lot of nice cars. When I asked him about him knowing how quick the car was, he said he was referring to the numbers it did on the dyno. I told him I had never driven a car with this amount of power and he was telling me to be careful because it could get away from me pretty easily.

[TedRamAirII]

The oil filter already has a By Pass built in. So blocking the one in the oil filter housing, is OK. The oil will get where it needs to be.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

The oil filter already has a By Pass built in. So blocking the one in the oil filter housing, is OK. The oil will get where it needs to be.

To my knowledge all spin on filters do not have their own by pass. Even if they do do you want to put the life of your engine in a 8$ spin on filter and hope their by pass works ?
Very easily could have oil starvation or media blown through with the wrong filter.

[gtospieg]

Eagerly waiting.....congrats

[72projectbird]

Uh oh.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

He posted a while back about having to slow down from what sounded like a stress related health problem.

Something may have happend since the inspect and when he said it was going back together.

I'd have to look but I'm sure he's posted about other projects he's working on now. And this one was going back together over a month ago.

Clay

[grivera]

Well I'm confident Paul will make it right and you'll be on road in no time.

[gtofreek]

Very fine debris from the bushing got through the filter and when I was cleaning up parts for re-assembly, there was very fine debris in main bearings and Jeff would not let it go back together with just a Scotch-Brite tune-up and wanted it back like new as Joe paid for. I agree with Jeff. When I took it apart, it was all oily and the debris was not evident. Also looked like the distributor jacking the timing up may have been causing some detonation as some of the top rings showed signs of the Moly coating starting to flake off. Just buying top rings from Total Seal was more money than just buying a whole set, so we bought a whole set.

Other than that, engine is just fine.

[gtofreek]

Engines are loud at full throttle on the dyno, not at idle. They are relatively quiet at idle so a knock would have been noticeable. I told you this Joe. I stand right next to the engine while setting the timing. There timing marks were solid as a rock, not jumping around like they would be after the bushing wore out.

Seems to me that if it made noise at first startup then the shop that got it running would have said something. But they didn't. Makes more sense to me that it didn't make noise, then during their first test drive, it started making noise and they were afraid they hurt the engine, so they didn't say anything. It was me and someone else on here that pointed the noise out to you. You even told me that when you went to pick up the car, they commented on how fast it was so you better take it easy at first. That means they got on it. Not saying they hurt it, they didn't. Just saying they probably thought they did, so they didn't say anything to you about the noise.

[gtofreek]

I even said that they didn't hurt it so it doesn't matter if they got on it or not. That's what it was built for. I'm just saying it seems suspicious to me that they didn't say anything about the knock. You never even said anything about it until I and someone else mentioned it. Most shops that install and fire up an engine that they didn't have anything to do with will mention a noise if they heard it, immediately. They are not wanting to be held responsible so they mention it right away. As much noise as it was making, they have to have heard it. That's why I wonder if it was just about to start rubbing and during the course of their test drive, it actually started knocking. At this point, it really doen't matter. The distributor was the problem so it's getting fixed.

[Va68goat]

Napa gold oil filter.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Va68goat]

Well, I got word from Paul that the dyno was a success! No mention of a knocking noise!!! It dyno'd at 540hp and 559 ft lbs. I'll post the dyno sheet when I get it! Paul is just addressing a small valley pan leak and once that is addressed, it should be on it's way home!. I can't wait to get this motor and finally enjoy it. It's been one helluva journey but I think I'm at the home stretch!

[Sirrotica]

NAPA gold is a 20 micron filter and is 50% efficient at a single pass, so 1 out of 2, 20 micron particles are caught with first pass. Typical of a full flow filter and blocking the bypass valve doesn't make the media any more efficient. It's still only going to catch 1 out of 2, 20 micron particles at the first pass. The other particle is going to make more circuits in the oil system. Anything under 20 microns will circulate indefinitely until the oil is drained.

The majority of engine wear is caused by 5-10 micron particles which are free to roam with any full flow filters, and are only removed most times when oil is changed. Just keeping the facts straight here.

A by pass filter removes 100% particulate to 2 microns the first pass, I really have no idea if it would have saved the wear parts in this instance, but it at least would have a fighting chance as 100% of the oil runs through it every 5 minutes, even with the bushing deteriorating it would still only circulate in the engine for 5 minutes, not indefinitely.

After close to 50 years in the automotive field I have never seen this problem arise with a distributor bushing failing. Paul and Jeff in my estimation have gone over and above to stand behind their work, even though it was no fault of their own. This is how a business is judged when the job has a failure and they stand behind it, even though any profit they made initially was eaten up, they still hung in there until the problem was solved. This is exactly the formula that separates a good business from a great business. Business ethics like this are tough to find today and refreshing to see someone still has the foresight to keep their reputation intact because they intend to be around for many years.

Glad the problem has been solved, and the owner is going to be able to put some miles on his car this year. Good job to all who got their hands dirty trying to solve this elusive noise, I know you did it for the brotherhood of Pontiac owners out there.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

NAPA gold is a 20 micron filter and is 50% efficient at a single pass, so 1 out of 2, 20 micron particles are caught with first pass. Typical of a full flow filter and blocking the bypass valve doesn't make the media any more efficient. It's still only going to catch 1 out of 2, 20 micron particles at the first pass. The other particle is going to make more circuits in the oil system. Anything under 20 microns will circulate indefinitely until the oil is drained.

The majority of engine wear is caused by 5-10 micron particles which are free to roam with any full flow filters, and are only removed most times when oil is changed. Just keeping the facts straight here.

A by pass filter removes 100% particulate to 2 microns the first pass, I really have no idea if it would have saved the wear parts in this instance, but it at least would have a fighting chance as 100% of the oil runs through it every 5 minutes, even with the bushing deteriorating it would still only circulate in the engine for 5 minutes, not indefinitely.

After close to 50 years in the automotive field I have never seen this problem arise with a distributor bushing failing. Paul and Jeff in my estimation have gone over and above to stand behind their work, even though it was no fault of their own. This is how a business is judged when the job has a failure and they stand behind it, even though any profit they made initially was eaten up, they still hung in there until the problem was solved. This is exactly the formula that separates a good business from a great business. Business ethics like this are tough to find today and refreshing to see someone still has the foresight to keep their reputation intact because they intend to be around for many years.

Glad the problem has been solved, and the owner is going to be able to put some miles on his car this year. Good job to all who got their hands dirty trying to solve this elusive noise, I know you did it for the brotherhood of Pontiac owners out there.

X2 big time on standing behind the work. I hope the OP realizes that 90% of the engine shops operating would have washed their hands completely as soon as the engine was delivered. Especially when a defective component having nothing to do with the engine build was the root cause. Most would have said, "your problem is between MSD and you", end of story. Paul and crew deserve real credit for "really wanting to find the root cause" and then correct it. Concerning blocking the oil filter bypass, this is something I didn't realize was common on street Pontiacs or any other street engines for that matter. Something I just haven't done in that application.

[Dragncar]

I run the Nappa Gold filter for a early 60s big car in my 69 GTO. Its longer so it has more capacity and filter area. Fits with my Hooker round port headers.
That said, its a fine filter for what it is. I know of no one who has run a 455 as long as I have and as hard as I have and never hurt a thing.
But, if you want problems plug the by pass. foolish. You are asking a filter to do more than it can. It would take more than 2 filters set up to get it all under every engine condition. Pontiac engineers were not stupid.
Seen too many guys have problems with plugged by pass with just a standard sized filter screwed on. Don't care what they say the filter flows. Know of guys who blew those big long tall deck BBC filters off too.
Most of us drag race and oil never really gets dirty before its changed.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I run the Nappa Gold filter for a early 60s big car in my 69 GTO. Its longer so it has more capacity and filter area. Fits with my Hooker round port headers.
That said, its a fine filter for what it is. I know of no one who has run a 455 as long as I have and as hard as I have and never hurt a thing.
But, if you want problems plug the by pass. foolish. You are asking a filter to do more than it can. It would take more than 2 filters set up to get it all under every engine condition. Pontiac engineers were not stupid.
Seen too many guys have problems with plugged by pass with just a standard sized filter screwed on. Don't care what they say the filter flows. Know of guys who blew those big long tall deck BBC filters off too.
Most of us drag race and oil never really gets dirty before its changed.

Agree, I did not mean to recommend blocking the bypass in my earlier post. I would much rather have dirty oil, or even oil with a little bushing material in it lubricating my bearings than NO OIL in the bearings. I don't think it is wise to block the bypass in any engine that will see street use.