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marks73ta · 03-22-2012, 12:03 PM

Bryan, the welder didn't have time to put them on but I'm only putting the bars intemporarily for now. I want to build a better crossmember and front bar mounts before I actually get the car on the road. Then I'll take them back a get the catches built. I will not run it with out them. If I had the rearend suspended seperately then I would not care as much. But these are the only mounting points for the rear. Actually my son installed the lights in the garage when we bought the house and he was living in it before we retired and moved down for good. So I have to give the credit to him. Although I always wanted to do that in my shop up in Wisconsion. Mark L

bryansMtngto · 03-22-2012, 04:16 PM

Ok just didnt want them forgotten. Pics Looking Great. I cant wait to see that beast when its all finished. !!!!!!!!!!!!

marks73ta · 01:05 AM

Got the rearend in with temporary front bar mounts. I'm going to sell some stuff at a swap this weekend and I'm going to put the Cat on display as advertising for Pontiac Heaven, the following week. Got it on the ground so I took a couple of pics.

I did a slight trim of the front fender where it hung down so low too. I like the look of the Cragars on the front now. I also temporarliy mounted the turbos just to see where they would fit.

I got the twin intercoolers to so maybe with time tomorrow I can try a temporary mounting of them also.

Mark L

marks73ta · 04-09-2012, 11:17 AM

Hey guys. Haven't added much lately slow so I thought I'd update a little. Got my car to Pontiac Heaven show over the previous weekend. Lots of great comments, a few head shakes (both up and down and a few back and forth, heh), won a plaque for favorite project of the show. Saturday was 91 and hot, Sunday was 75 but the sun was intense and there was 40 MPH gust that upset the racing every now and again. But over all a great weekend. Monday morning I woke up not feeling well. (Sorry for the graphics but) I started having things coming out of parts of my body that I didn't even know were there. You know in "Alien" when the thing rips out of the guys chest. It woud have felt better if it had riped out of my chest. At one point I passed out, dumped over into the bath tub smacking the tub spout on a 45 degree angle, with my face, and ending up butt up and face down in the tub. On a sidenote, if you're gunna hurt yourself, passing out first is the way to go man, you don't feel a thing and I'll never fear a tub spout in the future, heh. My wife heard the crash and found me face down and out. Took her 45 seconds before I responded. So after that every episode she was with me in the bathroom. A second time she said after wretching I just sat stright up staring at the wall, she said I was totally unresponsive for another 45 seconds before I blinked. That did it, I was going to the hospital. Went at 8:00 pm and left for home at 2:30 am. A bunch of tests, blood samples and a bag of fluid. That was Monday the 2nd and I'm still battling it. Whatever it was it was nasty. OK enough about me.
I got a call from Paul Carter down in Tucson and they are about ready to final assemble the motor. I had asked him to look into seeing if the piston dish would accomodate CV-1 valve locations or if they had to be cut while it was still apart. The pistons now will accomodate any head except them, and I thought if I should ever want to change heads, the added valve notches would at least give me the option. I may never use them but at least they would then be a bolt on option should I want to. He thinks the dish would cover the valve notch area and notching would then not be neccessary. He's still checking but I felt good about that. So I may have the motor done and home soon.
I also made my decision on a transmission. It's not optimum for a turbo motor but it is a hell of a lot more fun. With Aron's help (he bought and is building my old Trans Am) he located an early Dearborn 3 speed toploader transmission. He hepled me get it and it is resting comfortably in my garage. Found a BOP lakewood blow proof bellhousing at the Pontiac Heaven swap meet with the block plate. I feel that the original Pontiac trans being a 3 speed, will work the motor better than a 4 speed. One less shift to do (and or miss, LOL), wider gear ratios, and these things are indestructable. Now I just need a strong clutch and to build a shifter mount and add a shifter. I'm excited about the trans. I think I'm going to use/find an old V-gate type shifter (either Mr Gasket or Hurst) and adapt it to 3 speed use. I know some of the critics of the shifter used on the street was the added complexity of down shifting with the pull up etc to get it down into the 1st/2nd range, but with using the 3 speed I will only need to drop one time, I'll build a solid gate lock out so I don't mistakenly push it up into reverse (the 1st gear on a 4 speed shifter). I think it will work fine.
Now the bad news. When I bought the heads the seller said that he thought they'd be Ok to use as is but could use a rebuild. So I planned to do that. Bolt them on and rebuild them the next off season. But we found that who ever machined/assembled them used too narrow of a valve seat insert which allowed a little too much aluminum between the valve seats instead of butting the inserts together more and the heat of the motor and possibly using nitrous, created a hot spot and probably low grade detonation and degraded the aluminum. So to correct that I will have to go ahead and do the rebuild first. I'll go to 1.77 valves from the 1.66 and the wider seats will correct that problem. And the guides and everything will be all solid and blueprinted to spec. It's a good thing to do, just had not expected it right away.
I still have to get to the guy that built the rearend for the car and get the axles ordered and in. Then I can permanently install the rearend and ladder bars.
So that's kind of it in a nut shell. More odds and ends to do also but my fingers are wore out. MArk L

twooldgoats · 04-09-2012, 12:30 PM

I've had two of the top-loaders in Pontiacs and I loved them: a '67 Tempest 326 I ordered new from the factory and a '68 GTO I bought used a few years later. That first gear is a tall gear! I used to street race from time to time on University Avenue in St. Paul and never shift from first gear, going from stoplight to stoplight. Even the Tempest would routinely wind up to 60 in first and 85 in second. Great Transmission!

Your car is coming along well and richly deserved the award at PH. Next year, however, I want to see it go down the track (and my wife's '60 'Cat, too).

Get well soon.

Jim

aronhk_md · 04-09-2012, 02:28 PM

Awesome Mark! Well.....all except the illness. lol

twooldgoats I have a question for you. Might help Mark in the end too. My 67 Grand Prix convertible has the 3 speed toploader too. One of 205 convertibles with a manual, and I'd guess since people were shelling out extra cash for a convertible why wouldnt most opt for the 4 speed? So its a fairly rare car I think...havent been looking long but have yet to see another.

So my question revolves around rear gearing. I checked and MY car has a 3.23 open rear with the 3 speed. Do you happen to recall what gearing either of your 3 speeds had? I am going to be putting a posi rear in it.....and MAYBE eventually a 75mm turbo. I have a 2.73 posi rear here, but my guess is thats going to be just way too tall. From the sound of it I'd be able to hit 100 mph in 1st gear. lol. But red light starts would be hell! lol

Still.....from what I know of the hybrid 65-70 B body 10 bolt/12 bolt rears, the 2.73 posi carrier could take up to 3.08 gears. Would changing from 3.23 to 3.08 be too tall in your opinion?

Thanks for any input you have.

Sorry to hijack Mark

Jack Gifford · 04-10-2012, 03:11 AM

I'm surprised to hear you talk of "pulling up" on an inline shifter for lower gears. Way back when ('60?) I used a DragFast shifter on a three-speed in a Poncho-powered street machine- it was "push down" for 1st/Rev; was that unusual for inline shifters?

Personally, I'd like to see you go with the 3-speed. One of my favorite recollections is of Hayden Proffitt manhandling the 3-speed in Mickey's Super Stocker Catalina at the NHRA Nationals ('62?).

twooldgoats · 04-10-2012, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

......
twooldgoats I have a question for you. ...... Do you happen to recall what gearing either of your 3 speeds had?........

I never knew what rear end ratios I had in either. I suspect the rear end ratio in the '67 Tempest was whatever was standard with the 326 2bbl. engine and the three speed floor shift. I was recently married and had a baby at the time we ordered that car from the factory and I had fuel economy on my mind. I am ashamed to admit a friend of mine had to talk me into ordering the 326 instead of the standard OHC 6! I don't think it had posi either.

When I got out of graduate school in 1970, I bought the used '68 GTO to celebrate (didn't have to be talked into the big V8 by then

). I remember it had the WT engine, but I don't remember if I ever even knew the rear end ratio. I can remember cruising on I-94 for hours on end at 95 with it hardly breaking a sweat. So it probably had a high (numerically low) rear end ratio.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but CRS syndrome kicks in.

Jim

marks73ta · 04-10-2012, 04:45 PM

Jim, thanks so much for the kind words. It's always great seeing you and you wife at the show. And Yes, or maybe, to seeing it run down the strip next year. Time will tell. If I can work at it just towards getting it running and on the strip I can let street stuff slide a little and get it streetable later.
I did a little gear checking/turning on the trans and a loose guess is a 2:33 or 2:35 first with a around a 1.45 or 1.50 second, but I want to jump on line to see if I can bring up a spec chart for '65 Cats just to see what they come up with. That is tall in first. I'm running a 3:50 rear gear but tall (31") rear tire. But I think it will pull nicely with the turbos. Again time will tell.
Jack, I really like the idea of the 3 speed and the toughness of the trans, but your agreeing with me has me worried (just kidding). I was going from memory on the down shift mechanism, but I'm pretty sure I had to pull up on the trigger to go into second from third and again from second up to first which kept it from gating into third again. I think my unit was a Mr. Gasket. Hurst may be different?? Even at that I'm just not sure anymore. If I'm right it would work as a kind of reverse lock out as long as I don't pull up the trigger going out of the 3 speeds first gear (second on a 4 speed). With only pulling the trigger for first it aslo will be less hassel than the 4 speed.

marks73ta · 04-18-2012, 05:28 PM

Received my polished Wenzler T Ram bottom today. Now I can mock it all up to show where I'm going with my induction system. I do not have the turbos mocked up but they will be just ahead and to the sides of the motor, feeding into the intercoolers, and from the intercoolers piped up and into the blower scoop. The scoop will be closed up and pressurized to feed the twin 750's. The twin blow off valves will be on either the the piping between the intercoolers and the scoop or I might build them right off of the blower scoop. Anywho, this will be the basic intake system with changes as they are needed during the build. Oh, and I'm diggin' the polished Tunnel Ram, Thank you Geoff Sotak for the manifold.

I also started to build my steering assembly. Tore the steering column apart to take the column shifter bulge out of the collar. Still a ways to go on that yet. Mark L

BruceWilkie · 04-18-2012, 06:05 PM

Thats a pretty setup there Mark. Air after the intercoolers shouldnt be swirly so that should help air distribution in the scoop. Keep it turbulent! One thing for sure... it will be crowded around your car at cruises and car shows.

hellerods · 04-19-2012, 07:34 AM

Hey Mark -- Do you have a name for your car ??? Maybe you should start a contest to name your car and the winning name will get a ride , autographed picture of you and the car ???? No need to thank me for the idea, I'm always here if you need any other great ideas...... Lee

marks73ta · 04-19-2012, 10:28 AM

Ha. Lee, my wife already has a name for it (actually a few names for it, they're just not printable, LOL). I thought "CATZILLA" was appropiate??? I also thought since it's such a mish mash of old and new it could be called "MISFIT". And since it's not a traditional "Gasser", maybe it should be "INAPPROPRIATE". But seriously, if I were to name it I would really like to use an Indian base but one that is respectful. Many of the good names are already used, like Tin Indian, Medicine Man etc. I think I like the car to stay white, so "White Warrior" seemed good??? MArk L

60man · 04-19-2012, 03:58 PM

Hey Mark....good to see progress. Glad you have the go power..

The Name "White Warrior" is/has been on a lot of cars...but one more wouldn't matter I guess...The 63 Tempest of the late Dave Johnson comes to mind for one.
Some thing like Crazy Horse or Crazy Injun comes to mind but a little to corny probably..

FWIW: If you use a flat plate for carb mounting on Wenzler use at least 3/8' plate...or go with o Wenzler top..JMO. I have used both 1/4 & 3/8"...

blueghoast · 04-19-2012, 07:36 PM

Not to highjack but what was it that took Daves life.
I was always impressed buy him and his machine.
P.S. Your Catalina is one neet piece.

GT.

twooldgoats · 04-19-2012, 08:30 PM

Mark, how about "Arrowhead" as a name? I don't know if anyone has ever used it. It seems like a natural. I thought about using it on my Tempest, but I've never gotten around to it. I've stuck with my "MR BLUE" personalized AZ plate.

Jim

60man · 04-19-2012, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueghoast

Not to highjack but what was it that took Daves life.
I was always impressed buy him and his machine.
P.S. Your Catalina is one neet piece.

GT.

Not sure what took Dave's life...cancer I think but not sure. I matched raced with him several times. Very knowledgable and nice guy....RIP..

marks73ta · 04-20-2012, 12:23 AM

Yes you are right. I forgot White Warrior was on Daves car. I think it should stay his. Troy, I'm waiting for a cost plus shipping for a top from Wenzler. It just makes sense to buy the correct piece, easier, and simple. I'll just have to polish it once I have it. I like Arrowhead but I'd like something that denotes a Warrior, something tough and mean. Otherwise, if I don't get it going soon I'll have to go with "Broken Arrow", LOL. I also thought, since this style of car never really existed as a gasser, I should name it "One of None". Mark L

60man · 04-20-2012, 08:24 AM

I didn't use the Wenzler top because of height limitations on my 60 but you have no rules ...

My scoop would have been to tall...I lent my top to a fellow racer. Larry W. was always good to deal with with me..I ordered my Gutsram w/o top..Had it in no time..

Hell....just call it the Boosted Warrior...

aronhk_md · 04-20-2012, 12:14 PM

Wow Mark, looking great! I dont stop in for a week or so and things move ahead! Its really going to attract a crowd. Remember.....if you need anything like that base or the valve covers polished I'd be glad to. I know theres an expense in shipping it though. Any news on the shortblock?

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