[PontiacJim1959]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Pat, Sandy keeps “preaching” to her nurses that they are going to have to start using percussion to aid in the breaking up of the mucus in the lungs of CV-19 patients. The only problem with this you have to be a nurse over 50 to even know what percussion is.

A friend with severe asthma used to use a hand held device called a Flutter. You blew into the device that reminded me of a kazoo, and I believe it had a ball in it that when blown through created a vibration that went back to the lungs and broke up the mucus. It did work. More info on such devices and techniques can be read here: https://www.verywellhealth.com/copd-...devices-914996

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

The population of Lake Co., IN is 484,411. 2,653 residents of Lake Co., IN have been tested for CV-19; 576 have been positive. That means that .1% of the total population of Lake Co., IN has tested positive for CV-19. The current infection rate is 21.71%. That IS higher than the national average of 19.2-19.5%....

Not arguing proportions but the tests are not random so these high infection rates apply only to those tested. I don't know the current criteria but I suspect symptoms with perceived high risk are still required. I also think the criteria are not the same everywhere so comparisons may not be apples to apples.

The only "random" sampling I have heard of was conducted by a private company using an antibody test in San Miguel County (Telluride) Colorado.

Here is a web article describing the effort (6000 samples) and some results (on ~1000 to date). Not an unbiased scientific summary by any means but the data is interesting.

https://reason.com/2020/04/08/mass-a...and-lethality/

Until random sampling results are available, all the statistics and proportions seem open to interpretation and spin IMO.

[dataway]

Wife just mentioned proning to me the other day ... she says it does help, but it takes SEVEN people to do it to someone on a ventilator because of all the machines. That means seven people all dressed in extensive PPE at the same time. They are also running most of the monitor machines etc. in the hallways so they can be checked by people that aren't wearing as high a level of PPE.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959

A friend with severe asthma used to use a hand held device called a Flutter. You blew into the device that reminded me of a kazoo, and I believe it had a ball in it that when blown through created a vibration that went back to the lungs and broke up the mucus. It did work. More info on such devices and techniques can be read here: https://www.verywellhealth.com/copd-...devices-914996

Familiar with this device. Both my uncle and my aunt(both had COPD) used them. When dealing with pneumonia and especially mucus as viscous as the mucus associated with CV-19 is percussions are more effective.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Fingerless gloves for the win?
(I expect I'll get the finger now)

Fingers aren’t the problem, Pete. What IS the problem is the width of my hands. Think of a catcher’s mitt.

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I have a friend who has cystic fibrosis. She has a therapy vest that has a series of air pockets built in; it connects to an air compressor, and the air pockets inflate and deflate rapidly to vibrate her lungs to break up the mucus that collects in them. She wears it for a period of time each day, and it's made a big difference in her life quality (and has probably extended her life by years.) That kind of vest would probably be beneficial for CV-19 patients, but they're expensive and I suspect they're not very common.

Years ago, I did a project to redesign the pump for one of those CF vests. I got to try one. As you turn the gain up, you start to feel your lungs bouncing around inside your rib cage. It was pretty freaky. I've thought that if I ever got bad mucus in my lungs, I'd ask for one to be used on me.

Eric

[dataway]

A few days ago I made a complaint to the DOT about the way Delta is handling our refund request. Actually got an answer back with a case number etc. They said they contacted Delta and will be monitoring their response to our refund request. Saying that the violation falls within the scope of their rules for airline customer rights etc.

I was very surprised that the DOT was that on the ball.

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by dataway

Interesting article ... However my wife that works in the ICU says they ARE treating patients with Hydroxychloroquine, as she is administering it to patients under the trade name Plaquenil. So while the connection to Malaria is dubious as the article states, it is being used to treat Covid.

My SIL also is a RN in the ICU, She says the same thing as your wife about the respirators that they do more harm than good. They are not allowed to give any Hydroxycholoroquine until the very end when they know the patient is too far gone to recover from the treatment.

Everything I have read and seen on TV (Ingraham Angle), if you test positive you need to start on a treatment of Hydroxycholoroquine, Azithromycin and Zinc Sulfate all three, early on. Several DR's are posting the same results on twitter, see attached. Has anyone come to the same conclusion?

I see this as a key to open the country, not a vaccine.

[Stuart]

^ According to his Twitter page, Dr. Doug Debele apparently isn't a practicing MD. It says

CEO of Sunrise Capital Management LLC. An Independent Registered Investment Advisory Firm #Christian #Doctor #DMD #Model #Actor Q6 Model & Artist Management

He was retweeting information from Dr. Vladimir "Zev" Zelenko, and if you look around online there is apparently some controversy about his claims. I'm not saying the information is good or bad, but I recommend doing your own research.

[ta6point6]

I hope the DMD isn’t treating to many patients seeing as the

Doctor of
Medical
Dentistry

might be full of poop but hey maybe while he treats Covid patients he also fixes their teeth. Just like any other medication Hydroxycholoroquine, Azithromycin and Zinc Sulfate they have to be trialed on a large scale to know if they work or don’t work for Covid.

Also there has always been A and B strains of flu. The flu vaccine mutates often and so that is why the vaccine is about 40-50% effective. Every year the vaccine is the best guess of what strain might hit the following year. Not to mention 50-60% actually get the flu vaccine.

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Stuart

^ According to his Twitter page, Dr. Doug Debele apparently isn't a practicing MD. It says

CEO of Sunrise Capital Management LLC. An Independent Registered Investment Advisory Firm #Christian #Doctor #DMD #Model #Actor Q6 Model & Artist Management

He was retweeting information from Dr. Vladimir "Zev" Zelenko, and if you look around online there is apparently some controversy about his claims. I'm not saying the information is good or bad, but I recommend doing your own research.

As I mentioned I found a lot of information from various sources that all say basically the same thing, I used that twitter post since it was consistent with the other treatments I have read about or seen. I also mentioned Ingraham Angle on Fox news where she had Dr. Stephen Smith on her show who has been using the same type of treatment and he is still working on the dose amounts since he claims the French are using 3 times the amount. He says different people with different health issues need different doses.

I also read an article where the Dr substituted the Azithromycin with another similar drug that has less side effects with positive results.

Its been proven that its not as deadly as originally thought, Fauci seems to dismiss any treatment and wants a vaccine before we open the country and I disagree.

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by ta6point6

I hope the DMD isn’t treating to many patients seeing as the

Doctor of
Medical
Dentistry

might be full of poop but hey maybe while he treats Covid patients he also fixes their teeth. Just like any other medication Hydroxycholoroquine, Azithromycin and Zinc Sulfate they have to be trialed on a large scale to know if they work or don’t work for Covid.

Also there has always been A and B strains of flu. The flu vaccine mutates often and so that is why the vaccine is about 40-50% effective. Every year the vaccine is the best guess of what strain might hit the following year. Not to mention 50-60% actually get the flu vaccine.

I was talked into a flu shot once, I was never so sick in my life. Never again.

Have you noticed the 1100 patients in NY that were tested with Hydroxycholoroquine have not been talked about since it was mentioned in the press conference 3 weeks ago?

You are going to tell me that will all the positive cases in the US alone and the 30 million doses of Hydroxycholoroquine that were donated we don't have any data??

[242177P]

Originally Posted by 68 461 Bird

Have you noticed the 1100 patients in NY that were tested with Hydroxycholoroquine have not been talked about since it was mentioned in the press conference 3 weeks ago?

That story literally got buried.

NY received "1100" ventilators. China sent 1000, and Oregon sent
140. That total is 1140, not 1100. And let's not forget the 500 from
California. And then NY recorded "1100" deaths. 500 one day, and
630 the next. For a two day(?) total of 1130, also not 1100.

Ignoring 28% of Oregon's contribution, OR ignoring thirty dead
would be considered... peculiar. Combined, it paints a picture.

[dataway]

Right now the data appears way off almost everywhere in the world.

My wife has personally seen the recovery and release of half a dozen patients from her ICU alone, in just her hospital .... but the official total "recovered" for the whole county ... Zero. They didn't even count the first two cases in the county six weeks ago, walk ins, that were not admitted and went home and recovered just fine.

Any mathematician that watched the numbers come in on the CDC tracking page must have been amazed .. impossible that the same virus could have such radically different behavior in different countries. So it was obvious the data was way off.

I would expect that is normal in this kind of situation, when everyone is busy just coping the data is going to take a good while to sort out. They will probably have a good handle on it by the time next flu season comes along.

Whether the data will better or worse who knows. But the CDC has to be overwhelmed with conflicting numbers right now, and little time to sort it out.

[Cruiser]

My sister works for the Ohio State University Hospital System she is in charge of housekeeping for her particular hospital. One of her patients had the virus. She developed a fever & was sent home to self quarantine, she finally got the results & tested positive. She finished her quarantine & returned to work at the hospital this week. This is In Ohio yet Ohio lists zero recovered virus patients ? What is up with that?

[Chris65LeMans]

Los Angeles claims 8,453 sick and zero recovered. Can’t keep the populace scared if you give ‘em good news...

[dataway]

I think one of the problems is the vast majority of people that go to their doctor, or get checked out in the hospital and don't need to be admitted ... they just go home and get better and never report back to anyone that they are "recovered"

This is what I see as a major problem, many sources reporting numbers with absolutely no context whatsoever ... no comparisons to a country's population, no comparisons to other forms of illness and death. Lots of people with no real background in math, and that's most people, have no way to properly conceptualize these numbers.

I would say the best measure is to compare the virus deaths to the typical total yearly deaths of all causes 1,700,000 a year. While it would have no scientific value, it would give most people a conceptual reference to visualize the data. Covid deaths are a circle "this big", average yearly deaths are a circle "this big"


Jeez, just checked the data on Mexico ... they are in for trouble very soon, their graph is pointing to the moon, even the logarithmic scale is heading way up.

[johnta1]

I would say the best measure is to compare the virus deaths to the typical total yearly deaths of all causes 1,700,000 a year. While it would have no scientific value, it would give most people a conceptual reference to visualize the data. Covid deaths are a circle "this big", average yearly deaths are a circle "this big"

Yearly is all 'after the fact'.
Use circles of a daily death rate.

In 2017, an average of 7,708 deaths occurred each day. January, February, and December were the months with the highest average daily number of deaths (8,478, 8,351, and 8,344, respectively). June, July, and August were the months with the lowest average daily number of deaths (7,298, 7,157, and 7,158, respectively).
Source: National Vital Statistics System. Underlying cause of death data, 1999–2017. https://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html.

Then break the circles down to individual causes of the deaths.
(heart attacks, cancer, car wrecks, murders, etc)

Then compare to an individual covid-19 rate.

[johnta1]

Another source:

https://www.indexmundi.com/blog/inde...day-in-the-us/


And another:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...to-all-causes/

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by dataway

I would say the best measure is to compare the virus deaths to the typical total yearly deaths of all causes 1,700,000 a year.

This could compare Covid19 deaths to other causes but I don't view other causes the same. I don't think someone dying of a car wreck in a nursing home causes 23 others in that same nursing home to die of car wrecks. The overall death rate for Covid19 may be "relatively" low but is far from random.