[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Instead of doing excessive speeds at 130mph on public highways where there could be other people at risk or chance of being busted by the police & losing your license ... why not just go to a local dragstrip to test & tune the car?

At least that will be safer for you & others but more important it will give you actual times to set a baseline and compare the times/speed of different runs or after different repairs or mods to actually know the performance of the car. Much better than trying to judge performance by how much a 90-130mph run throws you back in the seat... as mentioned, one person's definition of power/speed is totally different than anothers and doesn't really prove anything related to the condition or power of the engine.

First, I have to get this Engine running as well as it did with the old used Cam. With all the new stuff in this Engine it should run like a raped -ape.

This is still a 50-year-old Motor and needs to be driven nicely, I only pushed it in the beginning to see if the former owner rebuilt the Motor. It turns out that he sourced out the Motor and dropped it in the car along with the Trans. and Rearend, all second-hand junk. Good thing I did not overpay for this second-hand project. I am afraid to race this Motor as it is in no condition to be over worked. Instead, I enjoy being stopped everywhere I go and just talk shop.

When I decide to Race it, I will pull this Motor and have it rebuilt and sell it to someone that needs a 1967 428 ci HO Tri-power YK code, to increase the value of their GTO or Firebird or Trans-am, Pontiac big cars etc... Then I can take that cash and get a Race built one, 800- 1000 hp, would be nice. That should move this heavy car and I want to keep the Interior in place. I want to remain Automatic so I have to rebuild my Trans again, no big deal for me anymore, since I have already done the research. I would rebuild the rear also but I want to keep the disk brakes, just upgrade to aftermarket parts. Then I can hit the track and get respectable times too.

[steve25]

I wonder if what your hearing wrist pin slap?

At low rpm you will hear a double slap, once when the piston reaches TDC and then again when the cylinder fires, and the sound tends to get so fast with increased rpm that it seams to go away.

To prove this out If you pull the plugs one at a time at idle this noise will go away by 50%, and that’s enough to nail it down to a wrist pin issue.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by steve25

I wonder if what your hearing wrist pin slap?

At low rpm you will hear a double slap, once when the piston reaches TDC and then again when the cylinder fires, and the sound tends to get so fast with increased rpm that it seems to go away.

To prove this out If you pull the plugs one at a time at idle this noise will go away by 50%, and that’s enough to nail it down to a wrist pin issue.

This latest noise is from 1000-2000 RPM, when I am stopped and I rev. it up, I can hear it, then it disappears above that and returns as the RPM falls back to idle, I don't hear it at idle, which in park is 650-700 RPM. Then when I take off, I hear it from 1000-2000 RPM and under load it disapears as I accelerate.

I can't discount the recent Head job that these 670 "D"-port Heads have just received. What kind of a problem could the Head Mechanic have caused to manifest my current noise? Rattling Valve stems, for lack of using Valve Guides, down the Valve stem hole? Just a thought for the people who think that I answer my own queries.

By the way I can try your test once I get it running.

It looks like this weekend the Oil pan is coming off and the bottom end gets an inspection.

[tom s]

1967 Tripower?

[Drag Star Le Mans]

Originally Posted by tom s

1967 Tripower?

I saw that also. REALLY??

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tom s

1967 Tripower?

An interesting topic that we went over years ago, the Tri-power was finished in 1966 and in 1967 came the Quadrajet.

However, During the 1966 Motor development for the 1967 models, how many Tripowers were installed on the 1967 upcoming models (400 ci and 428 ci) and are there any factory records of them?

Before the edict that band Tripowers on everything but the corvette and the Corvair?

My 1967 Pontiac 428 ci HO Motor does not include the Vin. number, just the EUN number, because early models did not come with the Vin numbers yet.

My vehicle has a 1967 Pontiac 428 ci HO with YK code, that is 4bbl, auto. In 1968 I have the date etched into the p.s. Head # 2288, I think going by memory, Feb.- 28-1968, when a Engine Mechanic installed the # 886 Tripower Cam and the 1966 Tripower Intake Manifold and Carbs. on to my Engine. I can now be assured that is when this Mechanic put the Pistons on Backwards except the # 2 Piston is installed forward. Now that the Heads were recently removed, I can see that only Factory work was done there.

It is known and I found out in my research that the Tripower Intake and Dual quad Carbs, # 886 Cam were sold over the counter to the public, but it was the racers that were knowledged of these special parts, from being in the groove, for lack of better words. This is why I believe that my Motor was raced, not only to run shine. Also, recently it has been proven that in those days the racers would purposefully reverse the pistons to gain an edge on the track. Some posts back I inserted the forum member that made us aware of this fact.

Get a hold of John Wallace for more Info., he helped out in the past.

And there is much more info. in my various Threads, if one wants to research this further.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

An interesting topic that we went over years ago, the Tri-power was finished in 1966 and in 1967 came the Quadrajet.

However, During the 1966 Motor development for the 1967 models, how many Tripowers were installed on the 1967 upcoming models (400 ci and 428 ci) and are there any factory records of them?

Since my Uncle had a Pontiac dealership (for 67 years) in this time frame, And I worked for him for a few years as a mechanic, Mr Forrest, our Chief Mechanic told me that GM never installed TRI-POWER parts on 1967 engines and The Development Phase of the Rochester 4 BBL Carb was several years earlier. Another BS story vs reality.

If you worked for an Auto Company in the 1960s you would know that the engine development time "start date"
for the components was YEARS ahead of the production year.

Tom V.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Since my uncle had a Pontiac dealership (for 67 years) in this time frame, And I worked for him for a few years as a mechanic, Mr. Forrest, our Chief Mechanic told me that GM never installed TRI-POWER parts on 1967 engines and The Development Phase of the Rochester 4 BBL Carb was several years earlier. Another BS story vs reality.

If you worked for an Auto Company in the 1960s you would know that the engine development time "start date"
for the components were YEARS ahead of the production year.

Tom V.

Mikes reply:

THIS IS A QUESTION, "NOT" A BULL STORY, YOU CAN TELL BY THE QUESTION MARK AT THE END!

However, during the 1966 Motor development for the 1967 models, "how many Tripowers were installed on the 1967 upcoming models (400 ci and 428 ci) and are there any factory records of them?"

ALSO, IN MY READING, "IF YOU WERE LUCKY TO HAVE RECIEVED A 428 MOTOR, FROM THE FACTORY, IN A PONTIAC TRANS AM OR FIREBIRD OR GTO, YOU WOULD HAVE ONE RARE VEHICLE?", STATED IN SOMETHING THAT I READ, IN THE PAST, IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by tom s

1967 Tripower?

I guess you guys aren't up on the regional options available on the 1967 GTO, specifically the " 3 Pot Lightnin' " tripower option available only to moonshiners in the Appalachians. Moonshiners were known to love the '67 GTO for it's larger trunk capacity and its understated styling which garnered it little or no attention from the revenuers on the backroads of Appalachia.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

I guess you guys aren't up on the regional options available on the 1967 GTO, specifically the " 3 Pot Lightning' " tripower option available only to moonshiners in the Appalachians. Moonshiners were known to love the '67 GTO for its larger trunk capacity and its understated styling which garnered it little or no attention from the revenuers on the backroads of Appalachia.

Those boys don't play around, when it comes down to their Gin-sing roots, they steal from one another and will kill you for the money that that root brings, saw it on TV.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint View Post
I guess you guys aren't up on the regional options available on the 1967 GTO, specifically the " 3 Pot Lightning' " tripower option available only to moonshiners in the Appalachians. Moonshiners were known to love the '67 GTO for its larger trunk capacity and its understated styling which garnered it little or no attention from the revenuers on the backroads of Appalachia.

WHERE DO THEY GET THIS STUFF, Tom S?
" 3 Pot Lightning' " tripower option available only to moonshiners in the Appalachians."

Must be trying to improve his typing skills with 10 times more posts in an hour vs any other member.

TV

I worked on only THREE FACTORY RA-IV 400 engines (in my whole life).

[Cliff R]

+2

IF you have an hour or so of your life to waste watch the video below. You can actually stop after the 6 minute mark. They found absolutely NOTHING with their test, but then found themselves going "against the grain" enough to have to go into theory and start guessing that maybe the engine was "snappier", revved quicker off the corners, blah, blah, blah and blah. Bottom line on their test controlling things as closely as possible no gains whatsover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmjL2nm5qWk

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

+2

IF you have an hour or so of your life to waste watch the video below. You can actually stop after the 6-minute mark. They found absolutely NOTHING with their test, but then found themselves going "against the grain" enough to have to go into theory and start guessing that maybe the engine was "snappier", revved quicker off the corners, blah, blah and blah. Bottom line on their test controlling things as closely as possible no gains whatsoever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmjL2nm5qWk

Good reference, I watched the video 3x, then I wrote Motor Trend to get in touch with Engine Masters to see if they want to retest using my car as the subject on a floor dyno. Then they can fix it and retest with the Pistons installed correctly. Wish me luck.

P.S. Some of you have pull on the internet, here is the time to help me get this motor fixed to keep the Pontiac Vehicles alive.

[rolling money pits]

What in the wide wide world of sports is a goin’ on here?

[78w72]

The ghost noise is because the heads are hard and the block is soft? Seriously??

Originally Posted by rolling money pits

What in the wide wide world of sports is a goin’ on here?

[NeighborsComplaint]

It's been a great run Mikey. Your enthusiasm and claims of owning a 1 of none 1967 428 HO tripower mystery motor have provided invaluable entertainment. However, it's time to get in touch with that reality we as kids thought served no purpose than to spoil our fun. Time to take the motor to a professional and flush all your theories down the toilet.

It's time to determine if the rods are installed backwards or just the pistons. Unless you know what you are looking for or have rod to reference, you won't know the difference. Both sides of the rods have a chamfer. One side is "eased" to prevent stress cracking form a sharp edge, The other side has a much larger chamfer intended to be installed facing counterweights and allowing the rod to ride over the fillet all the way to the counterweight.

When you install the rods backwards, there is no chamfer to clear the fillet on the crankshaft and secondary thrust wedges the rod bearing into the crank fillet causing the cap to displace and create a sharp edge contact point between the rods on the same journal and ultimately seize the rod to the crankshaft.

I have every confidence your "ghost noise" is one rod face bouncing over the edge of the displaced cap at low RPM. At higher RPM, it becomes masked by other mechanical noises within the engine and just becomes an odd whirring or scuffing sound that seems to follow the engine RPM but seems oddly out of synch with it.

The noise would eventually go away once the engine goes silent after you spin a rod bearing or two and seize the crankshaft.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

It's been a great run Mikey. Your enthusiasm and claims of owning a 1 of none 1967 428 HO Tripower mystery motor has provided invaluable entertainment.

Mikes reply:

I am not here to put on a show for anybody nor am I wasting your time and I do have a Manual and I do read it etc...


However, it's time to get in touch with that reality. We as kids thought it served no purpose, than to spoil our fun. Time to take the motor to a professional and flush all your theories down the toilet.

Mikes Reply:

I can't afford to pay a Mechanics wage and I would not let one near my Car. I am in reality at all times, those who think that I am not, should check themselves, before casting those aspersions at me.

It's time to determine if the rods are installed backwards or just the pistons. Unless you know what, you are looking for or have a Rod to reference, you won't know the difference. Both sides of the rods have a chamfer. One side is "eased" to prevent stress cracking from a sharp edge, The other side has a much larger chamfer intended to be installed facing the counterweights and allowing the rod to ride over the fillet all the way to the counterweight.

When you install the rods backwards, there is no chamfer to clear the fillet on the crankshaft and secondary, thrust wedges the rod bearing into the crank fillet, causing the cap to displace and create a sharp edge, contact point between the rods on the same journal and ultimately seize the rod to the crankshaft.

Mikes reply:

Good stuff.

I have every confidence that your "ghost noise" is one rod face bouncing over the edge of the displaced cap, at low RPM. At higher RPM, it becomes masked by other mechanical noises within the engine and just becomes an odd whirring or scuffing. This sound, that seems to follow the engine RPM but seems oddly out of synch with it.

Mikes Reply:

Better stuff.

The noise will eventually go away, once the engine goes silent, after you spin a rod bearing or two and seize the crankshaft.

Mikes reply:

I won't wait that long, thank you!

I am reading about the Pistons and Crank as we speak and that piece of information says it all. I need reasons "not" just do this and that and then I jump. Thanks, and I will be posting later. I have been searching for the differences and I especially find that the Pictures in the 1967 Pontiac Service Manual, that were posted to this forum, were incorrect at least and confusing. One drawing has you standing in the front of the car, the other is viewing as if you're sitting in the driver's seat. Also, I took two years of AutoCAD in Mechanical and Architectual drawing and recieved an "A" for my effort.

The Draftsman, of the poor Images of those Pistons should have simply called out the offset and pointed to it. He also should have drawn an arrow from which the Eye was looking from. How many Pontiac Engines were built wrong from those Pictures, is unknown. I am at least content that this Motor works, because on the other hand, it should have been seized, a long time ago. This is why they can't make me believe that I am in any immediate danger. I am "not" saying they're wrong and some people have convinced me that this Engine can run the way it was built, these parts did not start hitting each other, that's bull.

By this weekend the Flexplate will be installed. I have already obligated myself with that one and I should be Testing and Tuning by next week. The effects that the Flexplate has on the noise issue is to be discovered. Then What is next?

[Stuart]

This discussion is all over the map as it is, there's no need for sniping at each other. Keep it cool, guys.

[Stuart]

Like I said earlier:

Originally Posted by Stuart

This discussion is all over the map as it is, there's no need for sniping at each other. Keep it cool, guys.

If you don't have anything beneficial to say, please think twice about posting.

[rolling money pits]

I saw cinder blocks being mentioned a few posts back…

I sure hope you’re not using those to support the vehicle in any way, or more to the point, supporting anything you may be sticking your melon under.