[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Firebob

I have to wonder that if the filter media is working that good in a by-pass filter system, how hard does it work the pump to push enough oil through?

It has a 1/8 inch restrictor that feeds off any oil pressure port. The oil feeds through slowly so it gets filtered completely and just returns to the sump. Cleaning oil to this standard can only be done slowly and since the by pass system has no bearing on oil pressure to internally oiled engine parts it has no by pass valve to open under extreme conditions as the compromised full flow system must have.

It is a closed system that takes a small portion from the oil system that would be by passed by the pump and does an excellent job filtering and returns it cleaned to the pan. It processes 4 quart in 5 minutes so in 6-7 minutes it will filter all the oil in the system once. Since the system uses oil that would normally be sent back to the pan by the oil pump by pass valve it has no effect on oil pressure. All oil systems have more than enough oil in reserve that bleeding of a minute amount for the by pass system has no ill effects.

Picture of by pass filter system:

[68 Firebird]

Heres my take on it

My company car has 210,000 miles of firestone oil changes and oil is CLEAN. Changed every 5,000 miles per fleet rules. Grand caravan 7 years old. I am sure its the cheapest oil and filter possible. She runs VERY well surprisingly.

My wifes Trailbalzer gets Chevy oil changes(lifetime for 19.99 from dealer) and oil
usually hits 3,000 and is slighltly dirty. Using all AC delco filters and 5W????

My Firebird gets Rotella 15W40 with Comp additive and Baldwin B9 and 1,000 miles
since cam swap and oil is spotless and decided to leave it till spring. Just put in a 180
Milodon High Flow stat since she now runs COOL.

My uncle has a large FLEET over construction equipment worth ALOT more then my
cars and he swears by BALDWIN.

Gerry

[John62]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

It has a 1/8 inch restrictor that feeds off any oil pressure port. It processes 4 quart in 5 minutes so in 6-7 minutes it will filter all the oil in the system once. Since the system uses oil that would normally be sent back to the pan by the oil pump by pass valve it has no effect on oil pressure. All oil systems have more than enough oil in reserve that bleeding of a minute amount for the by pass system has no ill effects.

Picture of by pass filter system:

2 questions- where do you normally connect the line from your filter back to the oil pan, my oil pan does not have a empty plug. Second, why don't you make a small version, with a filter the size of a lawnmower for use on normal gas cars. It seems the oil is passing thru the bypass filter more then it needs to.

[mgarblik]

It does seem that if Franz had a system that used a smaller filter element, more geared toward smaller gas engines, with salesmen like Brad, they would sell many more of the systems. The packaging could get a little tight in many car applications, not so bad in pick-ups, suv's. These by-pass filters have been around for a VERY long time. I remember seeing them advertised in JC Whitney catalogs when I was just a kid, probably 1966-68. My high school auto shop teacher swore by them and I remember all of us kids snickering when he "changed the toilet paper in his car"!!. I am guessing the fact that toilet paper is used is why a smaller size is not available. Then you would need a dedicated filter element. But it would be easier to fit in the average car if it was smaller.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 68 Firebird

Heres my take on it

My company car has 210,000 miles of firestone oil changes and oil is CLEAN. Changed every 5,000 miles per fleet rules. Grand caravan 7 years old. I am sure its the cheapest oil and filter possible. She runs VERY well surprisingly.

My wifes Trailbalzer gets Chevy oil changes(lifetime for 19.99 from dealer) and oil
usually hits 3,000 and is slighltly dirty. Using all AC delco filters and 5W????

My Firebird gets Rotella 15W40 with Comp additive and Baldwin B9 and 1,000 miles
since cam swap and oil is spotless and decided to leave it till spring. Just put in a 180
Milodon High Flow stat since she now runs COOL.

My uncle has a large FLEET over construction equipment worth ALOT more then my
cars and he swears by BALDWIN.

Gerry

You uncle more than likely has a by pass filtration system on his construction equipment. High dollar equipment has much better filtration systems in place for the simple fact they don't want down time and when a diesel engine blows up it costs 3 times as much as most race engines cost. It's not whose name is on the filter that guarantees clean oil, its the type of filtration or lack of filtration that pollutes the oil and causes you to have to dump it to stop premature wear.

The basic premise is, you change oil every and filter every 3-5,000 miles because a full flow oil filter only filters out big stuff and when it turns black that's the stuff your full flow filter keep recirculating. The oil is is saturated with small particles that are wearing internal parts in your engine that your oil filter is incapable of removing.

Your choice is improve the system by adding a system that does filter out those small particulate, or dump the oil even though it's dirty because you have a compromised oil filtering system.

If you put a different system in you can easily extend oil life 3 plus times by having an efficient oil filter. You also eliminate the time the small particulate is wearing out the engine parts that the full flow filter is never going to remove. Stop sludge buildup by eliminating the small dirt completely from the oil. Stop acid formation by trapping condensation moisture that forms acid, no full flow filter traps water. By taking all the contaminants out of the oil the additive package is no longer taxed and lasts much longer.

Now you can run the oil 20,000 miles and only change the filter from the top in 5 minutes 3-4 times in that 20,000 miles. If you have the oil analyzed and it checks fine you can run it longer.

My own truck I ran 25,000 miles just changing filters in 4 years. Think of the 8 oil changes with 8 qts.(64 quarts total) 8 spin on oil filters, and I avoided and all the time changing oil I saved myself, plus getting rid of 8 gallons of drain oil.

The filter system saved me enough to completely pay for the better filter system, plus a lot of time.

Take your pick..........................

[John62]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

You uncle more than likely has a by pass filtration system on his construction equipment. High dollar equipment has much better filtration systems in place for the simple fact they don't want down time and when a diesel engine blows up it costs 3 times as much as most race engines cost. It's not whose name is on the filter that guarantees clean oil, its the type of filtration or lack of filtration that pollutes the oil and causes you to have to dump it to stop premature wear.

The basic premise is, you change oil every and filter every 3-5,000 miles because a full flow oil filter only filters out big stuff and when it turns black that's the stuff your full flow filter keep recirculating. The oil is is saturated with small particles that are wearing internal parts in your engine that your oil filter is incapable of removing.

Your choice is improve the system by adding a system that does filter out those small particulate, or dump the oil even though it's dirty because you have a compromised oil filtering system.

If you put a different system in you can easily extend oil life 3 plus times by having an efficient oil filter. You also eliminate the time the small particulate is wearing out the engine parts that the full flow filter is never going to remove. Stop sludge buildup by eliminating the small dirt completely from the oil. Stop acid formation by trapping condensation moisture that forms acid, no full flow filter traps water. By taking all the contaminants out of the oil the additive package is no longer taxed and lasts much longer.

Now you can run the oil 20,000 miles and only change the filter from the top in 5 minutes 3-4 times in that 20,000 miles. If you have the oil analyzed and it checks fine you can run it longer.

My own truck I ran 25,000 miles just changing filters in 4 years. Think of the 8 oil changes with 8 qts.(64 quarts total) 8 spin on oil filters, and I avoided and all the time changing oil I saved myself, plus getting rid of 8 gallons of drain oil.

The filter system saved me enough to completely pay for the better filter system, plus a lot of time.

Take your pick..........................

So if you have not changed your oil in 25,000 miles because it is still clean, ok but not changing the filter in that time, don't you think even if it does not do a good job on small parts it will clog up with big parts and then you have no flow except your little 1/8" bypass.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

It does seem that if Franz had a system that used a smaller filter element, more geared toward smaller gas engines, with salesmen like Brad, they would sell many more of the systems. The packaging could get a little tight in many car applications, not so bad in pick-ups, suv's. These by-pass filters have been around for a VERY long time. I remember seeing them advertised in JC Whitney catalogs when I was just a kid, probably 1966-68. My high school auto shop teacher swore by them and I remember all of us kids snickering when he "changed the toilet paper in his car"!!. I am guessing the fact that toilet paper is used is why a smaller size is not available. Then you would need a dedicated filter element. But it would be easier to fit in the average car if it was smaller.

Mike, there is a smaller size that uses a roll of TP cut in half, same diameter just shorter. The Frantz and filters modeled after it have been around since the mid 50s. People that have used them swear by them, I guess I'm one of them now.

The idea is so simple people are skeptical of it, human nature I guess. I saw one demonstrated in the late 60s, wish I had not been so skeptical and bought one. It would have saved me some money as well as grief over blown engines over the years.

Addressing the size, I have no trouble mounting one under the hood of my 93 K3500, 05 GTO, 08 Vibe, 03 Grand Prix. They can be mounted in a pickup bed, in a trunk. Not sure why the need for a smaller version. It's no longer than the old long oil filters Pontiac used in the early 60s and less than an inch larger in diameter.

Just measured mine and it's 4 1/4 in diameter, 7 inches long without the mounting bracket, and 8 inches long with the mounting bracket.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by John62

So if you have not changed your oil in 25,000 miles because it is still clean, ok but not changing the filter in that time, don't you think even if it does not do a good job on small parts it will clog up with big parts and then you have no flow except your little 1/8" bypass.

The bypass filter has been changed 4 times in the duration of the 25,000 miles 4 + years, along with 1 quart of makeup oil each time. 4 quarts of makeup oil and 4 by pass elements. I just had to replace the injection pump and that entails removing 3 bolts from the timing gear. The inside of the engine is clean from that observation.

If the oil is clean there is no buildup in the engine, no acid no sludge buildup.

You have to get over what happens to an engine using a full flow filter when you don't change oil religiously. The by pass filter is doing 30 times better job of cleaning your oil and you can leave it in because the filter is removing all the dirt, not just some of it as a full flow filter does.

Think of chicken wire over your windows in your house instead of screens, keeps birds out but all the smaller insects pass right through. Replace the chicken wire with window screen and all the insects are caught outside. Full flow is chicken wire, by pass filter is fine screen. If you want to leave some of the dirt in the oil a full flow filter is for you. If you want to catch all of the dirt the first pass through, by pass filtration.

The Frantz slogan is "change the filter, not your oil", keeping oil as clean as when it is put in the engine does a bunch of good things. No factory designed full flow filter system is capable of doing this because the filter would be so restrictive it would starve the internal engine parts. The full flow system has a lot of drawbacks. The by pass system circumvents all of the full flow designs shortcomings.

I did a lot of investigating before I invested my own money in a Frantz franchise. I could find no downside to using a much more efficient oil filter system. Since I started using the system on my own vehicles I know it does exactly what it is billed as doing.

From the posts on here anyone can see most people are trained to do car maintenance the way it's been done for years. Highly resistant to changing filters and leaving oil in the engine, but if the oil is clean there is no longer a reason to drain it out. Oil still lubricates as long as it isn't contaminated with fine dirt. No reason to throw out clean oil. Send it to an oil analysis lab and have it checked if you don't trust it, I already know you'll find it's fine to run it many more miles.

Yep, it goes against every thing you've learned about car maintenance, but no one of the people that said you have to change oil and filter at XXXX miles, never used a by pass filter system, it's a game changer.

[John62]

The question was aimed at your regular oil filter, are you saying the bypass filter keeps everything so clean that the regular filter never gets dirty. My concern is the regular filter clogging over 25,000 miles and restricting almost all oil flow, or will it clog up and go into full bypass all the time? Do diesel engines dirty the oil faster, thus more of a need for something like this?

[Sirrotica]

The full flow filter could be removed from the engine and blocked off, and the by pass system would do the same job as always, keep the oil clean. At one time Frantz did actually sell a plate to eliminate the full flow filters. To answer your question the same full flow filter is on the engine that was on it when I installed the by pass system. I'm not worried because just as you surmised the by pass filter runs all the oil through it in less than 10 minutes. You'd have to have some major problem to generate more dirt than the by pass could remove every 10 minutes. A problem that bad would be terminal for the engine anyway.

If the full flow would ever clog completely (not likely) it would open the by pass valve that the factory engineered into the full flow system, and the engine would be supplied clean oil even though the full flow was clogged. The full flow filter is not even necessary if there is a by pass system in place. The older automobile engines, the filter was a factory option. You could order a car with or without a canister filter. Just an FYI, the optional filter was a by pass style filter. The full flow system was yet to come, and it was a much cheaper system than the by pass canister system was.

Diesel engines do get more contaminants in the oil due to the high compression ratio there is much more blowby and contaminants getting into the engine. All engines however when run produce contaminants that get into the oil, removing all of them ASAP is paramount for the engines as well as the oils health.

The VW air cooled engines only had a screen in the pan, no filter whatsoever. When VWs were being converted into dune buggies (60-70s) the engines weren't lasting long in the desert sand dirt and dust. The hot rodders soon found that using the Frantz filter on the VW engines extended the life of the engines considerably. Most VW fans know that the Frantz filter or some type of by pass filter is a definite need if you want any kind of reliability in a VW air cooled.

[Sirrotica]

Someone asked about returning oil back to the engine after it was filtered. It can be returned to the pan, valve cover, oil fill cap, usually no problem finding a place to return oil after it has been filtered.

[JSPONT]

It seems it would be restrictive. The toilet paper does not come apart??
Putting one before my turbo and let it cool the turbo and back to the pan would be cool. I was just wondering after start up how fast does the oil flow thru that filter?

[mgarblik]

Just curious Brad, if any of your contacts have any idea why ALL the newer engines, even the light duty diesels have tiny cartridge full flow oil filters? I work on several fleets of passenger vans, 1 ton, and all of them newer than 2004-2005 have tiny scary looking bult-in, full flow filters. The Sprinter vans have 150,000 mechanical warranty and none have died that quickly, but the filters come out at the recommended 10K oil change interval very clogged-up. So much so that you can barely see the pleats. They look more like a solid gunky cylinder. Have you ever heard of a disadvantage to a bypass filter?

[Steve C.]

Stop Changing Your Oil ! Breaking the 3,000-Mile Habit.....

http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop...-your-oil.html


The main advocates of the 3,000-mile oil change schedule are those who would profit by it: repair facilities, quick-lube chains and service departments at some new-car dealers. Years ago it was a good idea to change the oil and filter frequently, but in many cases not today because of advances in engine materials and tighter tolerances,emissions, as well as the oil that goes into engines.


.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by JSPONT

It seems it would be restrictive. The toilet paper does not come apart??
Putting one before my turbo and let it cool the turbo and back to the pan would be cool. I was just wondering after start up how fast does the oil flow thru that filter?

As soon as you have oil pressure you have flow. I would not plumb it before a turbo. They work fine with a turbo as I have one on my turbo diesel plumbed with returning clean oil to the pan as the diagram shows. It should never be plumbed so that a pressure lubed part is dependent on oil flow from the filter, it's not designed to be used this way.

The TP is inside of a canister with a metal tube in the center of the roll. It's sandwiched between the two metal surfaces so it absolutely cannot move.
The oil goes up the center tube and is forced endways down through the roll of paper. There is a fine screen at the bottom and the hydraulic action forces the paper down to the screen. There is no way any paper can leave the canister. It's the single most repeated myth about Frantz or any TP style filter is that the paper shreds and plugs up oil galleys.

It's 100% MYTH there is no way the paper can leave the canister. When you remove a filter the paper is visibly compacted from the oil forcing it down.

One other thing is oil does not make TP shred, (it is designed to shred in moving water when unrolled). Even if you drop a roll of TP in a bucket of water it won't shred. It doesn't shred unless it's in single sheets unrolled in water being agitated.

If you like to see what your engine health is, all the large particulate lays right on the top of the roll when it's removed. You have it visible as soon as you remove the roll from the canister, no cutting open filters to look at it.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Just curious Brad, if any of your contacts have any idea why ALL the newer engines, even the light duty diesels have tiny cartridge full flow oil filters? I work on several fleets of passenger vans, 1 ton, and all of them newer than 2004-2005 have tiny scary looking bult-in, full flow filters. The Sprinter vans have 150,000 mechanical warranty and none have died that quickly, but the filters come out at the recommended 10K oil change interval very clogged-up. So much so that you can barely see the pleats. They look more like a solid gunky cylinder. Have you ever heard of a disadvantage to a bypass filter?

Mike, no idea of why any manufacturer makes smaller filters, except possibly packaging space.

I know of no disadvantage of cleaning oil to a very high degree. Lots of fleet applications are the ones that are proponents of adding an auxiliary filter system to save money by keeping oil clean over a longer period. It also reduces down time as the only thing that has to be changed is the media (5 minutes without getting under the vehicle), not the oil.

[kylek350]

Does anyone know who manufacturers those AC reproduction filters?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sirrotica]

If anyone cares, another dealer has made a Youtube video of how to service the media and answers a few of the commonly asked questions from owners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmmP0TNJZ7Q

Video of a unit installed on a Mercedes diesel being serviced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWWM-5qAvC8

[JSPONT]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

As soon as you have oil pressure you have flow. I would not plumb it before a turbo. They work fine with a turbo as I have one on my turbo diesel plumbed with returning clean oil to the pan as the diagram shows. It should never be plumbed so that a pressure lubed part is dependent on oil flow from the filter, it's not designed to be used this way.

The TP is inside of a canister with a metal tube in the center of the roll. It's sandwiched between the two metal surfaces so it absolutely cannot move.
The oil goes up the center tube and is forced endways down through the roll of paper. There is a fine screen at the bottom and the hydraulic action forces the paper down to the screen. There is no way any paper can leave the canister. It's the single most repeated myth about Frantz or any TP style filter is that the paper shreds and plugs up oil galleys.

It's 100% MYTH there is no way the paper can leave the canister. When you remove a filter the paper is visibly compacted from the oil forcing it down.

One other thing is oil does not make TP shred, (it is designed to shred in moving water when unrolled). Even if you drop a roll of TP in a bucket of water it won't shred. It doesn't shred unless it's in single sheets unrolled in water being agitated.

If you like to see what your engine health is, all the large particulate lays right on the top of the roll when it's removed. You have it visible as soon as you remove the roll from the canister, no cutting open filters to look at it.

Thank you, I really do appreciate the info. This is what the board is for. Education and help!

[Firebob]

A couple of years ago I bought an accu-sump with the intention of installing on my car but as soon as I opened the hood I realized there was nowhere to put it. I suspect I might run into the same issue trying to mount a by-pass.