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#41
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Not in these parts that I've seen but so variables in play.
Length of street that can safely full throttle. how contaminated and slick the asphalt is, type of tires, setup of the car, driving skill and aggressiveness. We did some crazy stuff in the past, street racing 3 cars across 3 lanes. These days I feel street racing is just not worth the risk, just take it to the track. Maybe you won't lose traction but what if the guy beside you does and hits you near the start. Last edited by pastry_chef; 10-17-2020 at 08:39 PM. |
#42
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The Following User Says Thank You to mgarblik For This Useful Post: | ||
#43
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Resetting expectations: I'm strongly pro-455 for GTO-type cars yet admire the nimble feeling of a 400 for Trams-AM type cars. This makes the 428 an exciting balance between to teo subtle traits of Long-Stroke vs correct stroke.
OHC-6 Spring engine is also a dramatic example of the 400 advantage; most pronounced with 4-Speed cars. On paper an OHC-6 SPRINT with a 5000 rpm stall converter ought play well against other near-stock RPM combos. Bottomline thought: Power is Power. HP applied beats any gearing to a wind-up spring. |
#44
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As far as hp and trq output,,,a little detail goes a long ways. The original 455 motor in my 70 gto made 491 hp and 570 trq. To me its so very close to something GM could of easily put out. 9.7 -1 comp,stock intake, qjet,ra4 sized hft cam. #64 heads at 254 cfm. Jetting and timing optimized. Remove 18 hp when adding ra exhaust manifolds. Could of made something like that production seems to me. When I bought my car it still had the original 068 cam and dist setup. Taking the original springs off the dist advance weights i had to use pliers. Total timing would of probably happened after the engine redline
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72 lemans,455 e-head, UD 255/263 solid flat,3.73 gears,,,10" 4400 converter,, 6.68 at 101.8 mph,,1.44 60 ft.2007 (cam 271/278 roller)9"CC.4.11gear 6.41 at 106.32 mph 1.42 60 ft.(2009) SOLD,SOLD 1970 GTO 455 4 speed #matching,, 3.31 posi.Stock manifolds. # 64 heads.A factory mint tuquoise ,69' judge stripe car. 8.64 @ 87.3 mph on slippery street tires.Bad 2.25 60ft.Owned since 86' Last edited by scott70; 10-18-2020 at 10:10 AM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to scott70 For This Useful Post: | ||
#45
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The 390 HP 428 was the highest rated factory HP of any Pontiac in the muscle car era. The 1970 D port 64 head 455 was rated at 370 HP. The RA IVs were close to that also.
They are all under rated. But its still sad that 390 HO 48 headed 428 with dished pistons never made it into a GTO or Firebird. And they all had cast rods, just sad. And we never got a 455 with real compression and real cam either. Pontiac always had one hand tied behind their back. |
#46
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You can do it with factory blocks and heads and low enough RPM the engines last a long time. Street racing is all but dead around here. But the track has free street drags on race weekends for the kids to let off stream. Very popular but mostly tuner cars. In the 80s street muscle car racing was so big we had lunchtime drags in High School. Talk $h!t in the morning, settle it at lunch. It was great. |
#47
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The Following User Says Thank You to Half-Inch Stud For This Useful Post: | ||
#48
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Besides, 242177P answered Steve's question at the very beginning of this thread about the HP wars and the reasoning behind the ratings. It was all weight related. And as you said, pretty much all those HP ratings are under the mark anyway and in most cases doesn't represent what the engines really made from any of the manufactures, not just Pontiac. It's kind of a dead topic that's been hashed out for decades since. |
#49
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Chevy found a way, they always did. In 70 they got the LS6 monster while we got the anemic 455 with D ports, puny cam and all the rest. Only 'good" engine was a 400 with cast rods. Chevy actually did hold Pontiac back. The 10-1 SD 455 not being built in 1970 while they got the good stuff came from Chevy's corporate power. I will never forgive them for that. |
#50
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Corvette is a different ball game, considered a 2 seater sports car and basically the flagship for Chevrolet very early on. That's basically a different discussion with different engine options that other Chevrolets didn't have, and we'd have to write a book if we open that can of worms.
But if you're trying to tell me Pontiac's demise is all Chevrolet's fault and they dictated what Pontiac did with their engines, I'm not buying it. LOL |
#51
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I suspect the '70 Buick Stage 1 caught them totally off guard don't you think? That car, true or not said to be an alternative to to the Hemi, haha. No mention of the LS6 LOL..
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65 Tempest, 400, TH400 86 Fiero SE 2.8 |
#52
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Yeah 70 was an odd year. When the engine size was lifted it wasn't the flag ship Corvette that got the big dog engine, it was the Chevelle that got the LS6. But in 71 the rolls were reversed. Go figure.
Other manufactures did similar things. If you wanted certain engines, you had to buy certain cars to get them. I'm not complaining how things turned out though. All the manufactures had some pretty hot cars for the time and the competition kept things interesting, and you're right, Buick was right in the mix with them. |
#53
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Come on now we all know Chevrolet made Pontiac build the Aztek. lol
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
#54
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#55
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Not sure what i can add to this but I had a 390hp 428 in my 1969 Grand Prix SJ model. It had #62 heads. I still have the heads. The block /crank was lost many years ago
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#56
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OK
I have a 2 bolt drilled for 4 bolt 428 block & N crank in good shape. I scored a set of matching Pontiac 4 bolts caps (not really needed but so what), a set of 62's & Crower Sportsman's. Where I go with this is undetermined at the moment. Saving my pennies for now. Maybe a set of 722's or 614's I can afford will turn up. Would love to replicate what could have been in 69 a 428 SD w/ the 041. But that's not likely. I'll probably stick w/ the 62's.
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65 Tempest, 400, TH400 86 Fiero SE 2.8 |
#57
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Could be a whole lot worse - how boring would it be if all GM cars had the same engine combos like MoPar or FoMoCo... we’d all be getting excited about (1) of (1) purple cars with paisley vinyl tops and green interiors!
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#58
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Absolutely. Happen to believe the internal competition within GM divisions was a good thing and kept GM at the forefront. But, eventually the bean counters won, why have, at one time including GMC, 6 engine foundries & 6 powertrain engineering teams for cars & light trucks?
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65 Tempest, 400, TH400 86 Fiero SE 2.8 |
#59
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How about we go back to the late 50s and early 60s when GMC light trucks came with Pontiac 389 motors, would that not be great?
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#60
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I never understood why that was acceptable, but Pontiacs with Chevrolet engines weren't. Even as early as 71 Pontiac was using Chevrolet V8 engines. People just can't be happy that they were at least still making Pontiacs in some form. Now it's all gone and everyone complains about that too lol |
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