[Rob B]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

Karma takes too long...I would prefer to beat the phuck out of some people now!

Tell us how you really feel!!

[wreckmastr]

KAUFFMAN RACING EQUIPMENT QUICK 16

The Quick 16 race class, sponsored by Kauffaman Racing Equipment, is the premier event for Traditional engine Pontiacs. We have the fastest Quick 16 field for Pontiacs!

$10.00 car & driver entry (First, must purchase a racer entry into the main event at the gate) To purchase C&D entry for Kauffman Quick 16 show racer entry run card at Guest Services (Budweiser Side of track.)

Rules & Info:
•Traditional Pontiac V-8 only!
•Super Pro Rules apply
•Everything else goes – Blowers, NOS, Turbo’s and Nitrous!
•Qualifiers must run within one tenth (.1) of their qualifying pass

Payout: Winner $1000; Runner-Up $500, Semi’s $200, Quarters $100 and 1st round $50 (All 16 places paid)

Qualifying – two rounds Sat and the 3rd (final) round will be held on Sunday at 11 a.m.

Kauffman Quick 16 entries can race in a regular bracket class on Saturday. If qualify for the Sunday race, Quick 16 entries can NOT compete in the Sunday bracket class, only non Quick 16 qualifiers. KRE Quick 16 winner does not participate in the “Chief of the Pontiacs” final on Sunday.


BUTLER PERFORMANCE FRANTIC FOUR

THE FRANTIC FOUR RACE CLASS, SPONSORED BY BUTLER PERFORMANCE, showcases some of the fastest Pontiacs being built today!

$25.00 car & driver entry (First, must purchase a racer entry into the main event at the gate) To purchase C&D entry for Butler Performance Frantic Four show race entry run card at Guest Services (Budweiser Side of track.)

Rules & Info:
•Traditional Pontiac V-8 only!
•Pontiac Door slammers!
•1 power adder only!
•Heads Up, Pro Tree

Payout: Winner $1000; Runner-Up $500; 1st round $150, Low qualifier $100

Qualifying – 1 round on Friday, two rounds on Saturday. Eliminations held Saturday afternoon.

Frantic Four entrants are permitted to participate in the Hammertime Racing Friday Test & Tune and will come up when your class is called. First call will be a time trial and the second call will be your first qualifying pass. (Note: Frantic Four runs are not applicable for KRE Quick 16. Frantic Four participants may run in Sunday’s bracket program. Frantic Four winner does not participate in the “Chief of the Pontiacs” final on Sunday

[estep455]

Originally Posted by wreckmastr

KAUFFMAN RACING EQUIPMENT QUICK 16

The Quick 16 race class, sponsored by Kauffaman Racing Equipment, is the premier event for Traditional engine Pontiacs. We have the fastest Quick 16 field for Pontiacs!

$10.00 car & driver entry (First, must purchase a racer entry into the main event at the gate) To purchase C&D entry for Kauffman Quick 16 show racer entry run card at Guest Services (Budweiser Side of track.)

Rules & Info:
•Traditional Pontiac V-8 only!
•Super Pro Rules apply
•Everything else goes – Blowers, NOS, Turbo’s and Nitrous!
•Qualifiers must run within one tenth (.1) of their qualifying pass

Payout: Winner $1000; Runner-Up $500, Semi’s $200, Quarters $100 and 1st round $50 (All 16 places paid)

Qualifying – two rounds Sat and the 3rd (final) round will be held on Sunday at 11 a.m.

Kauffman Quick 16 entries can race in a regular bracket class on Saturday. If qualify for the Sunday race, Quick 16 entries can NOT compete in the Sunday bracket class, only non Quick 16 qualifiers. KRE Quick 16 winner does not participate in the “Chief of the Pontiacs” final on Sunday.


BUTLER PERFORMANCE FRANTIC FOUR

THE FRANTIC FOUR RACE CLASS, SPONSORED BY BUTLER PERFORMANCE, showcases some of the fastest Pontiacs being built today!

$25.00 car & driver entry (First, must purchase a racer entry into the main event at the gate) To purchase C&D entry for Butler Performance Frantic Four show race entry run card at Guest Services (Budweiser Side of track.)

Rules & Info:
•Traditional Pontiac V-8 only!
•Pontiac Door slammers!
•1 power adder only!
•Heads Up, Pro Tree

Payout: Winner $1000; Runner-Up $500; 1st round $150, Low qualifier $100

Qualifying – 1 round on Friday, two rounds on Saturday. Eliminations held Saturday afternoon.

Frantic Four entrants are permitted to participate in the Hammertime Racing Friday Test & Tune and will come up when your class is called. First call will be a time trial and the second call will be your first qualifying pass. (Note: Frantic Four runs are not applicable for KRE Quick 16. Frantic Four participants may run in Sunday’s bracket program. Frantic Four winner does not participate in the “Chief of the Pontiacs” final on Sunday

thanks for posting that!

[estep455]

Originally Posted by Rob B

Tell us how you really feel!!

x2....

[johnta1]

Estep, what was your qualifying time in the Q16?

Also, you didn't race in the SPro 1st round on Sunday, right?

I'm pretty sure KRE doesn't have anything to do with the actual payouts.
(or who gets in or becomes alternates)

They basically set the race terms up, then the track does the rest.
(laddering, figuring out who's in, scheduling, payouts etc also probably the same for the other separate classes)

Then later they came to our pit and asked us if we would come run in the race since they had a bunch of breakage and only had 3 cars. We said sure why not even though it would cause us to miss the first round of qualifier for the Q16. Of coarse we went out first round. When went to customer service we were told since we were an alternate we did not get any money.

Sounds like Butler's are doing it too?

Karma takes too long...I would prefer to beat the phuck out of some people now!

Guess you would have to start with Butler!



Since both classes did this, probably a change was made from all the finagling going on with all the 'alternates' thing.
Like last year when a lot of the 'qualified' people left before the race even started.

I know one is supposed to notify the track if they will not be able to run 1st round.
(so they can get alternate rounded up and the ladder figured out)

No we didnt get paid for the Q16 which i understand and thought Estep would get it and that would have made me feel better anyway.

For the sikgoat guy or crew, did you go to the track to get your money or did you just figure they would come by and pay you?
And did you notify the track you were broke before the race?

[wreckmastr]

Originally Posted by johnta1

For the sikgoat guy or crew, did you go to the track to get your money or did you just figure they would come by and pay you?
And did you notify the track you were broke before the race?

I went to the tracks customer service office which is were the pay outs are handled. To get the $150 for the running first round in the Frantic Four. That is who said no money because we were a alternate.

As soon as we broke in Q3 of the Q16 I went straight to the customer service (which is where they we announcing to go) And notified them we were broke and would not make the call.

[65nss4spdGTO]

Wow, I'm in shock is all I can say.

The amount of money that exchange hands those four days is amazing. Most Pontiac people drive long distances, add in the expense to race, loss of work, travel costs, wear and tear on the race cars. The people behind the venue are willing to piss people off for such little money? Thats the kind of approach that will drive people away from the event. Without the people, cars and commitment, Norwalk wouldn't be. It took 20 years to build the event to this level, it will take a much less time kill the event if that kinda crap continues.

While I'm on my soap box, the number of Pro Class and Street Class cars needs to be split up by ET, crazy you have to go that many rounds to win such little money.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[twov8sandat4]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

Karma takes too long...I would prefer to beat the phuck out of some people now!

Awesome! Can I use that quote?

[estep455]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Estep, what was your qualifying time in the Q16?

Also, you didn't race in the SPro 1st round on Sunday, right?

I'm pretty sure KRE doesn't have anything to do with the actual payouts.
(or who gets in or becomes alternates)

They basically set the race terms up, then the track does the rest.
(laddering, figuring out who's in, scheduling, payouts etc also probably the same for the other separate classes)




Sounds like Butler's are doing it too?



Guess you would have to start with Butler!



Since both classes did this, probably a change was made from all the finagling going on with all the 'alternates' thing.
Like last year when a lot of the 'qualified' people left before the race even started.

I know one is supposed to notify the track if they will not be able to run 1st round.
(so they can get alternate rounded up and the ladder figured out)



For the sikgoat guy or crew, did you go to the track to get your money or did you just figure they would come by and pay you?
And did you notify the track you were broke before the race?

9.11 all three passes. no i didnt run first round of sp. think they should let you if you lose first round. my opinion! yes sikgoat told them and i made the call and made my pass. with the car that consistent i would have just gone after sp had it been posted or told to me that you dont get squat if you go out first round. i heard other people say they lost first round in years past and still got paid. dont know who is responsible for paying but it is the kre quick 16!!! like i said i did speak to jeff kauffman about it didnt seem to make much of a difference to him.

[johnta1]

I went to the tracks customer service office which is were the pay outs are handled. To get the $150 for the running first round in the Frantic Four. That is who said no money because we were a alternate.

I'd say the track/SD Promotions changed the rules/payout not the sponsors.
(but I'm sure drunk injun would still want to beat the phuck out of someone, at least he thinks he would )

I'd pay good money to see that fight.

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

Wow, I'm in shock is all I can say.

The amount of money that exchange hands those four days is amazing. Most Pontiac people drive long distances, add in the expense to race, loss of work, travel costs, wear and tear on the race cars. The people behind the venue are willing to piss people off for such little money? Thats the kind of approach that will drive people away from the event. Without the people, cars and commitment, Norwalk wouldn't be. It took 20 years to build the event to this level, it will take a much less time kill the event if that kinda crap continues.

While I'm on my soap box, the number of Pro Class and Street class cars needs to be split to, crazy you have to go that many rounds to win such little money.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Totally agree! Way to much money being made by the promoter who seems to get greedier and greedier every year at the expense of potentially ruining what I call a "cult following" event, to skimp out on a couple hundred bucks that you agreed to pay out in the first place. Qualifier, Alternate, doesn't matter which one fills the spot, whomever gets in and stages should be paid the money advertised no questioned asked.
I lost respect for the promoter several years back when we had rain on Saturday morning and afternoon. The track crew had the track almost dry around 6-7 o'clock. A group of us went up to talk with the promoter and Bader and suggested that we just run an 1/8th mile race since it was better than nothing. Bader was fine with it, figuring we'd be done between 11 and midnight at the latest. The other individual said no because he thought most people at the track go to bed by 9 and they would be upset from all the noise.... Racers come to race, not go to bed at 9pm at a race track.

The amount of cars in both Pro and Street grows every year while Super Pro numbers seem to get smaller but the payout stays the same. At least they started paying back 32 a few years back in Pro and they need to do the same in Street. Normally if you win 3 rounds, your in the money and thats about typical for most tracks these days.
If you go off the average of 500 race cars total at $70 a pop, thats $35,000 brought in just for the race not including an additional $12,500 if every racer has just 1 person with them buying a spectator pass. Figure a little more than half of that going to track cost and payouts, Thats a nice payout.
Now throw in the car show side with 400 cars @ $45 each, thats $18,000. With all the money for swap meet spaces I think at $25 a space and I saw somewhere in the 270 range, Thats another $6750, spectators, camping, various sponsorships, etc etc. Screwing a couple of people out of a couple hundred buck is silly and ignorant and puts a black eye what is still a great event.

[johnta1]

like i said i did speak to jeff kauffman about it didnt seem to make much of a difference to him.

Yes, it is out of his hands after he pays for his 'sponsorship'.
The promoters/track does the payouts,logistics, etc.

Your beef should be with Pete probably.

So get drunk injun and go kick some @ss there.

[estep455]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I'd say the track/SD Promotions changed the rules/payout not the sponsors.
(but I'm sure drunk injun would still want to beat the phuck out of someone, at least he thinks he would )

I'd pay good money to see that fight.

your not the only one! but im sure were not rooting for the same guy

[Region Warrior]

2X what Calvin and Rob said!

Seems there an issue there every year that's fault of the management.
Was good time to take a dump while all the nut sucking was go'n on Sunday morning before the races.

[2manyponchos]

Ultimately sounds like SD Promotions and the track dropped the ball and are the ones that are responsible. With the money run through that place in the weekend, pretty much a bunch of ***** that you guys didn't get your money. You showed up and ran first round. Bottom line. If you would have won, would you have not gotten paid because you were an alternate?

The above being said, I would have expected KRE to have done more than shrug their shoulders when Danny asked about the payout. They are the name sponsor on the Quick 16 and the face of the race. If the participant has a problem, KRE should work it through with SD Promotions and the track as opposed to saying that's how it is. If I was the big name sponsor...wouldn't want my name tied to false advertising.

With regard to sikgoat and Butler, same thing...but it sounds like sikgoat talked to the track only and not Butler. Therein lies the difference.

Ultimately, it sounds like SD Promo and the track owes someone an answer.

[estep455]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Yes, it is out of his hands after he pays for his 'sponsorship'.
The promoters/track does the payouts,logistics, etc.

Your beef should be with Pete probably.

So get drunk injun and go kick some @ss there.

hey when did i start busting your chops or even ask for your input? we all know who you support and good for you!!!! i have sponsored different events and always have say in how my money is being spent. thats how sponsors know they are getting something out of there investment!!!!! go somewhere else cause im the last person on the planet that will take crap from you! i simply let other people know not to run as an alternate thinking they will get what is on the sheet and not to waste there chance in sp if they wanted to run it.

[estep455]

Originally Posted by 2manyponchos

Ultimately sounds like SD Promotions and the track dropped the ball and are the ones that are responsible. With the money run through that place in the weekend, pretty much a bunch of ***** that you guys didn't get your money. You showed up and ran first round. Bottom line. If you would have won, would you have not gotten paid because you were an alternate?

The above being said, I would have expected KRE to have done more than shrug their shoulders when Danny asked about the payout. They are the name sponsor on the Quick 16 and the face of the race. If the participant has a problem, KRE should work it through with SD Promotions and the track as opposed to saying that's how it is. If I was the big name sponsor...wouldn't want my name tied to false advertising.

With regard to sikgoat and Butler, same thing...but it sounds like sikgoat talked to the track only and not Butler. Therein lies the difference.

Ultimately, it sounds like SD Promo and the track owes someone an answer.

thank you. my point exactly i did talk to the sponsor and you are correct he should have worked it out with whoever!

[estep455]

Originally Posted by Rob B

Totally agree! Way to much money being made by the promoter who seems to get greedier and greedier every year at the expense of potentially ruining what I call a "cult following" event, to skimp out on a couple hundred bucks that you agreed to pay out in the first place. Qualifier, Alternate, doesn't matter which one fills the spot, whomever gets in and stages should be paid the money advertised no questioned asked.
I lost respect for the promoter several years back when we had rain on Saturday morning and afternoon. The track crew had the track almost dry around 6-7 o'clock. A group of us went up to talk with the promoter and Bader and suggested that we just run an 1/8th mile race since it was better than nothing. Bader was fine with it, figuring we'd be done between 11 and midnight at the latest. The other individual said no because he thought most people at the track go to bed by 9 and they would be upset from all the noise.... Racers come to race, not go to bed at 9pm at a race track.

The amount of cars in both Pro and Street grows every year while Super Pro numbers seem to get smaller but the payout stays the same. At least they started paying back 32 a few years back in Pro and they need to do the same in Street. Normally if you win 3 rounds, your in the money and thats about typical for most tracks these days.
If you go off the average of 500 race cars total at $70 a pop, thats $35,000 brought in just for the race not including an additional $12,500 if every racer has just 1 person with them buying a spectator pass. Figure a little more than half of that going to track cost and payouts, Thats a nice payout.
Now throw in the car show side with 400 cars @ $45 each, thats $18,000. With all the money for swap meet spaces I think at $25 a space and I saw somewhere in the 270 range, Thats another $6750, spectators, camping, various sponsorships, etc etc. Screwing a couple of people out of a couple hundred buck is silly and ignorant and puts a black eye what is still a great event.

smart feller.

[S/st 54]

Danny I think you should get some money.For what that's worth.Just on the fact you were in the show.......you were in. Knowing you,you would probably be totally fine if SickGoat got the $50.......cause that's good sportsmanship and that's how you roll!

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

Wow, I'm in shock is all I can say.

The amount of money that exchange hands those four days is amazing. Most Pontiac people drive long distances, add in the expense to race, loss of work, travel costs, wear and tear on the race cars. The people behind the venue are willing to piss people off for such little money? Thats the kind of approach that will drive people away from the event. Without the people, cars and commitment, Norwalk wouldn't be. It took 20 years to build the event to this level, it will take a much less time kill the event if that kinda crap continues.

While I'm on my soap box, the number of Pro Class and Street Class cars needs to be split up by ET, crazy you have to go that many rounds to win such little money.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

How many round was it?