For all the haters

[makcrag72]

Yeah the Australian market demands a RWD coupe with a large V8...Bah!!! What would they know...give me a Front Wheel Drive car with heaps of cladding, that's built for the American market.
That's a real muscle car.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although there isn't one US
car made today that looks like a GTO. [/QUOTE]
You're right. I haven't heard any body point to a GrandAm or a Bonneville and say " Hey, that looks like a GTO"... or mistake the back end of a Cavalier or Dodge Neon for the GM Monaro.. It's usually the other way around.[/QUOTE]


I know all to well. I never had my GTO called a "Nice Chevelle" before.

[The Champ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
I can add and subtract just fine which I was I didn't buy one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you balance your check book the way you quote numbers....

You clearly posted:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
GM dropped it by nearly 10k and it still didn't sell. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is either a terrible math mistake by you, or a bold faced lie.

Or both...

[455HOGT37]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. There is plenty good about the machine, it just has not been accepted as the "rebirth" of the legend.

It's just another car, saddled with an unfortunate marketing strategy.

[Goathead]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I do know that the endura front end was not an option on the '70 GTO, which is more than I can say for you, Mr expert.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who really gives a s#!t about the endura bumper? Isn't that just a lame way to take the subjuct on a tangent?

I do know that if GM does not sell at least 6,000 more of these "limited edition" '04's, then this will be one more big flop for Pontiac. Way to go Lutz...

[red70goat]

Nobody...This forum would be boring if everybody walked in lockstep with the 04 cheerleading squad. GM is attempting to design a factory tuner and pass it off as a musclecar using an iconic name such as GTO. Trying to save a few bucks using a well-worn and boring fleet design didn't help either. Look at the 05 options and tell me I'm wrong. The only thing they missed was window graphics and a free Fast-n-Furious DVD with each purchase. (give 'em time)

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom McQueen:

Meaningless drivel. Its completely to the benefit of the few 04 owners to ask this BS question. The 04 benefits from almost 40 years of technological advancement.
The old classics can have most of this new technology applied to them. And when you do that, you truly have the best of everything. Adding this new technology is fairly easy. Replacing all the body panels in an attempt to fix the 04 is a whole lot more work. And the 05 aint any better. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Meaningless? OK, so don't EVER EVER let me hear you or any other person say that 1/4's of the old one were meaningful ok?


Yea you're right, it does benefit. Imagine if you built a GTO today that didn't take advantage of it. People would bitch and moan then too I guess.

You want retro, go buy a new mustang and be like everyone else on the road that has on and can't tell if it is a 6 banger or a weak V8. You don't ever have to worry about that wtih the GTO.

[HUMBLER]

[Goathead]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Does it matter to me that this car doesn't look like a particular car did 30 years ago? No, not in the slightest.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it doesn't look like a GTO, why is it called a GTO?

[Tom McQueen]

"Tell me, which bone stock GTO went 12.9 in the quarter before?"

Meaningless drivel. Its completely to the benefit of the few 04 owners to ask this BS question. The 04 benefits from almost 40 years of technological advancement.
The old classics can have most of this new technology applied to them. And when you do that, you truly have the best of everything. Adding this new technology is fairly easy. Replacing all the body panels in an attempt to fix the 04 is a whole lot more work. And the 05 aint any better.

[455HOGT37]

Does anyone really think that the "haters" or the "old school" drives down sales? How frigging weak minded do you have to be to not buy a car because someone else doesn't like it? I guess I'm "old school" in that I don't accept it as a Pontiac, let alone a Pontiac GTO because it simply isn't. It's a Holden, and that is all there is to it. I can look out my hotel window today and see the SAME CAR badged as a Chevrolet Lumina (engineered for the Middle East, according to the radio ads). So what is it? Chevy, Pontiac, or Holden? What is this thing in Europe, a Vauxhall? Bob does not get to snap his fingers and erase the Holden bloodline. It is not a matter of performance number. It is not a matter of "deserve". It IS a matter of fact: This fine automobile is a Holden, NOT a Pontiac GTO.

It would be nice to get past this fact and talk about the ugly rear quarters for a change.

[The Champ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
I think '70 was the last good year for the GTO and only with the Endura Bumper option. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How much did the "Endura Bumper option" cost???

From 1968 - 1972, the Endura bumper was the standard bumper on the GTO, although in 1968 there was an "Endura delete" option.

Your lack of knowlege on GTO's in only superceded by your lack of knowlege on cars in general...

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
The problem with the 04 had nothing to do with price. GM dropped it by nearly 10k and it still didn't sell. The problem was GM under estimated the intellect of their consumer: slapping a GTO badge on an import that looks like every other car out there was both insulting and poor judgement on GM's part. Hopefully somebody will wake Lutz up from his nap and he'll get a clue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


UH? They sold in the last 2 months than the whole rest of the production year. the car handles and accelerates and stops, is built better and has the best interior of any GM car made today and you think it is an insult? LOL, I don't think it is Lutz that needs to find a clue.

[455HOGT37]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickv:

What makes a car GTO? Describe for me what a GTO is in your mind please.

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For starters, a PONTIAC GTO is built and engineered in and for the United States by Americans....



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One thing I do know is that the 04 GTO adheres to the formula that DeLorean created back in 1964. Midsize, 2door coupe, RWD, big V8. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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So does a Jensen Interceptor. Could it become a Dodge Charger with a new grille and some stickers, or is it really just a foregn car built for another market?

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[red70goat]

[/QUOTE]

Although there isn't one US
car made today that looks like a GTO. [/QUOTE]
You're right. I haven't heard any body point to a GrandAm or a Bonneville and say " Hey, that looks like a GTO"... or mistake the back end of a Cavalier or Dodge Neon for the GM Monaro.. It's usually the other way around.

[David Jones]

I know all to well. I never had my GTO called a "Nice Chevelle" before.

I have, at least 1/2 doz times..........

[Hard-Timess]

Youall have many good points especially the one "it would make a great GranPrix" but missed the real reason for the 04 failure.

Pontiac did not want to hear from their original base and told us so when we gave them input, pre-production and after test runs that I was personally involved in.

This car was aimed at the upscale BMW crowd, pure and simple. Now that is has failed to attract that market, they are going to try and entice $30K+ from the same buyers that they didn't want to hear from by adding "options" like the functional ramair scoops on the 2005.

If you can afford to buy, make it a 6spd and you will enjoy all aspects of the car after a few computer mods like making it think it is 55degrees for one..

If you opt for an automatic, and I advise against it, plan on competing with that 05 Mustang from a roll at 25mph because if you try to go from the light, the three competing computers will pull timing out of the motor and you will get dusted.

We had three computer geeks working with us and could not defeat the computers on a chassis dyno, let alone the track.

Now having said all this, if you just want a nice car to cruise in at 130mph and can afford the tarrif, buy it. It is quiet, handles well, stops well and rides great but as is, it's not a GTO.

[HUMBLER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
You've been someone else on this board for years, and made up a troll name for the sole purpose of slamming the '04s and their owners.

Uhh, why would someone be on a board for years for the sole purpose of slamming a car that hadn't even seen production yet??? Whatever...The GM Monaro would probably have done well as a 2 dr. performance version of the Bonneville or as a new model all together. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? I don't know, please tell us.

Is whatzaa monaro your real name? Is this Misus??

Pontiac needed a muscle car, they got it. Its low production, ain't going anywhere. Thank you Pontiac you're on a roll!

[Tripower455]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
The problem with the 04 had nothing to do with price. GM dropped it by nearly 10k and it still didn't sell. The problem was GM under estimated the intellect of their consumer: slapping a GTO badge on an import that looks like every other car out there was both insulting and poor judgement on GM's part. Hopefully somebody will wake Lutz up from his nap and he'll get a clue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only thing about the car that is questionable is the looks of it, which is a purely subjective thing. It is not an ugly car by any means (if you think it is, just picture an Aztec or Element!). It DOES look like everything else out there (a good thing, for me at least), but try buying an import or domestic that has nearly as much going for it as the GTO, even at retail price. With the GTO, you are well into BMW territory performance wise, for a fraction of the price. The fit and finish is great, and it's comfortable to boot. There really isn't any other comparable car (RWD, Manual V8 with ROOM for 4 adults) around, at anywhere near it's price range.

I paid $3K less for my '01 Formula back in '00 than I did for a new GTO in September. Arguably, the Formula is a much better LOOKING car, but the GTO blows it away in just about every other aspect. The Formula might have been a tad quicker, but I've never taken either to the track, and on the street, the difference is not noticeable. The ride and comfort level is so far above the Formula, that I don't know how I drove that thing as long as I did!

If anything, GM OVER estimated the intellect of it's consumer with the GTO, figuring that people would see past the plain-ish skin and appreciate the subtleties of the whole package, instead of just how it looks. I completely agree that GM exercised poor judgement in this case....

That said, as a dyed in the wool GTO fan for my entire life, I wish they had called the '04 something else. Different versions of the same car would have been cool. Offer a LeMans and an optional, fancier GTO package with more HP and some different styling cues like they did back in the day.

I really think the '04 GTO would have made the perfect Grand Prix.

Just my $.02......

[red70goat]

" ...doesn't have the stones to say who he really is..." Mr_GTO??? Is that a real name?