[aj66gto]

RR67GTO,

Sounds easy, Can you put POR-15 on after this process, or should I just paint the POR straight on the rusted frame and peices?

Anthony

[busted1221]

Sixty7Goat asked if these were all phophoric acid. I kind of wondered about that myself. The safestrustremover I ordered had a very light smell similar to the oxy-solve. I am thinking it might just be a lot lighter mix, hence the reason it takes so long to use. I like the sound of the oxy-acid that RR67GTO used. That way you can mix only what you need. I will probably use the oxy-solve I have to do the heavier rust and just use the safestrust product to spray on my panels to keep them from rusting. Thanks for all the input.

[RR67GTO]

Well, I don't like to use POR although I have. But, you should ask POR about it first. I've used the Hammerite ® paint over it which needs something to bond to as well and it works fine. I used it on a 68 Firebird front half frame after using the acid and the paint does not require primer. That has been three years now and driving it in the NW rain with no problem. However, ask POR first. By the way, POR is fine but their are other coatings out there that are as good and which don't cost as much. People who are around salt water boats need the same protection, so that's a nice place to look into as well for some neat ideas and cost saving paints. This stuff does a great job on cleaning the drivway also, and is not as harsh as the other acids. Look it up on the web, there is a lot of information about it.

Mike

[Banshee]

Most of the rust removal products mentioned are variations of Phosphoric Acid. It can be had in food grade "oxy solve" or industrial grades. Difference being concentration.

Muriatic acid also converts rust but will eat thin metal and alloys.

Behr produces a floor prep product called croncrete etcher and rust remover that sells for $10 a gallon.

I have used all the forementioned products except the "safest rust remover" and have found for $10 a gallon, the results are exactly the same.

This product will completely remove all rust from the worst part you have in 15-20 minutes without harming the metal. I have left parts in there for days without issue.

Place a rusted bolt in a can of Coca Cola for 2 days and it will come out rust free..Look at one of the ingredients.

[RR67GTO]

"Oxyacid" (Chem.) An acid containing oxygen, as chloric acid or sulphuric acid; -- contrasted with the "hydrochloric" acid which contain no oxygen

Hydroxy acid: (Chem.), an organic acid, having (besides the hydroxyl group of the carboxyl radical) an alcoholic hydroxyl group, and thus having the qualities of an alcohol in addition to its acid properties; as, lactic and tartaric acids are "hydroxy" acids....

"Muriatic" acid: a former name for hydrochloric acid....

"Phosphoric" acid is a mineral acid with the chemical formula H3PO4. Its main uses are in fertilizers and detergents, and in cleaning and rust-proofing agents. It is also used to acidify foods and beverages such as cola. It is prepared by adding sulphuric acid to calcium phosphate rock.

[Darrell]

I went our local hardware store last night and bought Muriatic acid for $1.99 a gallon. It does the same thing that rust remover does. It is nasty stuff and if it was diluted it wouldnt be so bad. It took maybe 20 minutes too clean rusty bolts

[Mase]

This seemed like a good article.

Muriatic Acid Rust Removal

Mase

[Hammered]

Banshee has the best idea. PPG or Dupont metal cleaners are basically phosphoric acid. For a lot less, you can buy a phosphoric acid based tile cleaner or floor etcher at the home store.

Hydrochloric attacks the good metal and can really do some damage if you leave your stuff in too long. It will also do a number on high carbon steels or spring steel.

John

[Mase]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banshee:
Most of the rust removal products mentioned are variations of Phosphoric Acid. It can be had in food grade "oxy solve" or industrial grades. Difference being concentration.

Muriatic acid also converts rust but will eat thin metal and alloys.

Behr produces a floor prep product called croncrete etcher and rust remover that sells for $10 a gallon.

I have used all the forementioned products except the "safest rust remover" and have found for $10 a gallon, the results are exactly the same.

This product will completely remove all rust from the worst part you have in 15-20 minutes without harming the metal. I have left parts in there for days without issue.

Place a rusted bolt in a can of Coca Cola for 2 days and it will come out rust free..Look at one of the ingredients. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bought and used the Behr Rust remover and it only took about an hour to chew the rust right off. I think it was about $12 bucks for the one gallon size. How would you go about soaking an exhaust manifold without using 40 gallons of this stuff? Maybe a large and thick plastic bag ~ then tie it up some to eliminate the volume? Anyway. It worked really well.

Mase

[Hammered]

I've bought various storage boxes from Walmart. I just did an interior heater box because I didn't want to deal with the grit getting into the hinges and there is no practical way to remove all of the interior rust by blasting. You can dilute this stuff by at least 4 to 1 and let the part soak overnight to remove the rust. I probably diluted mine 8 to 1 and got great results.

Also, oxalic acid is a good alternative to phosphoric. You can purchase it in crystal form and mix with water. AC coil cleaners are also usually phosphoric based.

John

[Mase]

Ah ha. That's much better. A big plastic tub with handles ~ got one. Now for the stoopid question. Lid or no lid? I'll bet it needs to ventilate while the parts are in there right?

Mase

[Darrell]

What is the correct way to dispose of muriatic acid?

[Hammered]

I would use a lid. I found no need for ventilation because it doesn't fizz or bubble like a harsher acid. The lid kept the smell down in the old lady's laundry room (I wanted a floor drain in case of accident and that is the only room with one).

John

[Mase]

Using a 21 gallon tub with lid I mixed in two gallon of the "stuff" and then 8 gallons of tap water. I have been soaking an OHC intake manifold and half of an OHC exhaust manifold. The exhaust manifold rust is about half way chewed off! Wow. I left mine in the driveway. The way that stuff stinks ~ ain't nobody gonna touch it LOL.

mase

[pontiac6269]

If were to spray this stuff on body panel with surface rust, would you have to rinse the panel off with water or do you let it dry on the panel? Could you paint over it? Just wondering because my 62 GP has a lot of surface rust.
Thanks,
Eric

[Hammered]

You need to neutralize it with water after you're done dipping.

Naval jelly is another form of phosphoric acid in a jelly carrier so that you can apply it to vertical surfaces. Personally, I would sand blast an exterior panel like that.

Another hint on the dipping, periodically take the part out and brush the rust off with a stiff bristle brush. This will quicken the process.

John

[Mase]

You're right again. After one day of soaking a 35 year old manifold I took it out and let it dry. A yellow gray dust formed all over it with a thin layer of black film under it. I used a stainless steel wire brush and scubbed it all off with minimal effort. It appears to be as clean as it is going to get. The metal looks brand new.

Mase

[Hammered]

Mase,

Use a zinc phosphate metal prep after you neutralize with water if you're not going to paint your parts. It will provide some protection for bare metal. You can get it from a body shop jobber.

John

[jetallman]

The Zep product I purchased is sodium hydroxide after it is not effective anymore you mix with muriatic acid to a ph level of 7 then wash down the drain it is a rust remover, along with body filler and paint according to label

[dwainm]

What would you use on a frame? I thought about just sanding or wirewheeling the loose stuff off and using something like POR15. Any opinions?