[smrace]

I am sorry, but I must add my two cents about Tony at Custom Classics. A couple of people have talked about him personally; I do not know Tony personally, just in his business as owner of Custom Classics. I have met him in person and he showed me a 69 RA IV judge, not numbers matching and then two months later it was...how did that happen please tell me.... My next experience came when I had a deal to purchase a black 69 judge conv from a private owner. I made the deal and before the car was delivered, Tony shows up and ends up with the car. Yes the seller has no respect either after the incident, but Tony as well. To me, what does this show about a person’s integrity if he would go in and break up a deal between a seller and buyer? All I have to say, if this is Tony's lively hood, he better not piss off the wrong person. By the way, the black 69 judge conv that he has listed is not numbers matching, I have seen the car before him and I have pictures and video to back it up....... So why would he list something as numbers matching and it is not.....

[70ramair455]

To SAWYER:
Any misinformation about selling prices would be lies not matter how you chalk it up. Agreed. I don't know of any classic car dealer that is putting their actual sale prices up on their sites. They usually leave their asking prices up and then write SOLD on the listing or something like that. So while we might want to know what the selling price it seems that it is standard industry practice to leave the original asking price. Does anyone have info on sites where the ACTUAL SELLING PRICE is listed? So why all the focus on Tony? High prices can be my only conclusion. Not good enough to ruin a man's reputation.

To S.RACE:
Obviously I cannot comment on your personal experience and I would never presume to do so. Only you can do that. What I don't understand is how people can be buying cars at such high prices under the impression as "matching numbers" when in fact they aren't? I would say if anyone is lying about stuff like that then that is WRONG. Period. But yours in the first personal experience mentioned here and even at that you didn't get hoodwinked or anything else. I would love to see how that car was sold and what was told to the purchaser. But Tony asking high prices is by far (more than 99%) of the complaints on these boards. Not good enough, as I stated earlier, to ruin a man's rep. Wouldn't you agree?

[gtohurstjudge]

What this all boils down to is whether you can
stand to look at yourself in the mirror when you shave! I believe that it is perfectly acceptable to throw a car out on e-bay and ask
whatever you want or set the reserve as high as you want....however, if he is baiting wealthy
uninformed people who are not knowledgeable regarding old pontiacs and their current prices
by throwing out cars listed as SOLD for prices
that were never paid, or brags of cars sold that never existed in the first place, i.e.
CRUISING FOR SUCKERS, then I would hope that people continue to spread the word like taximan
has so that someone else doesn't get screwed!
I am well aware that there have been snake oil
peddlers for hundreds of years and that the Brooklyn Bridge has probably been sold numerous times, but that does not mean that this sort of activity should be condoned or kept quiet to
keep from stepping on somebody's toes. Just as
crooks have the right to screw people out of their money, taximan has the right to do his best to warn other potential victims! As I said
Tony may be a great soccer dad and I don't know the man except what I have read on this forum
but my entire life when I have gotten wind of a scam artist who makes their living fleecing people and I know for sure that is what is going on I have always done my part to try to put a stop to it. I have no firsthand knowledge so I have no comment one way or the other, but
it bothers me that someone who feels he was
almost fleeced like taximan should have to defend himself for trying to protect other potential victims. One thing that I do know firsthand by looking over the Custom Classic GTO website is that Tony is buying repro Hurst Wheels from The Parts Place for 1995.00 and trying to peddle them for 4995.00 on his website. If those defending him think this is OK, then you obviously can't relate to the morals and honesty of people like taximan or myself. Just because something is technically legal, that does not mean that someone who has a sense of right and wrong and strong moral values should be told to shut up because people are free to cruise for suckers if they want to! I am in the car repair business and try to run an honest shop and make an honest markup on my parts and services. One of my competitors farms out transmission overhauls to a local reputable transmission shop then marks up a 900.00 transmision overhaul to 2400.00 and makes five times the profit of the poor slob who actually does the work! Just because this is legal, does not mean that I should sit by and watch this go on without warning people about it. I have known several car salesmen in my life who are great people in private and good family men who firmly believe that fleecing people is the American way and that such practices mean that they are savvy businessmen! It all depends on your perspective and moral upbringing! I am not getting rich at my business, but I don't have to shave with a blindfold on either!

[SpartanMSU]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 70ramair455:

As far as your opinion on Tony. You have bought how many cars from him? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

None. Who can afford his prices?

[sawyer]

I don't think the real beef with Tony or anyone else are high prices. What bothers me is that the customclassic site at least implies that the cars were sold at the prices listed. If these were only the asking prices and if the cars sold for substantially less, then this fact should be clearly stated. At least in the case of the black RAIV convertible Judge, I was told the $750,000.00 plus price was the actual sales price. Does anyone have information about what price the car actually sold for?

[racerboy]

If folks honestly believe that his is inflating the prices that his cars have sold for, and then uses these 'shill' prices in advertising, a report should be filed with the FTC:
http://www.ftc.gov/ftc/consumer.htm

As a merchant, he is under specific rules promulgated under the UCC. While there is no law against his asking a "sky is the limit" price, he cannot fraudulently state that he sold another car at that price.

[Ram4king]

I believe the 70 ram iv convert was really sold in the 350-370 k range. VERY RELIABLE SOURCE. The car was not numbers matching either.The block was a restamp. As for Tony,Is he even a licensed dealer?? All the cars are kept in a storage facility. I thought there was guidelines to keep a dealers license.Like having a lot or wharehouse and a bathroom and an office. Maybe he still uses the florida license because theres no buisness address up there is there?? 70 RAMAIR455 I think its great that you defend this guy Tony because your a true friend but I feel you are misinformed of his actions. He even takes ads from other private sellers and dealers and uses their pics and puts their cars on his website at a much higher price. he has been threatened with lawsuits over this. Makes up lots of stories for his cars and trys to glorify them. Does anyone know why they ran him out of Florida???

[70ramair455]

Hi guys:

It saddens me that GTOHURSTJUDGE can make me out as saying things that I just did not say or even hint of. I have no morality? I guess only he is keyholder for morality for everyone in every industry (at least classic cars and transmissions.) I never would support rip off companies or rip off techniques as my company's track record will attest to. However, my competitors can charge 10x what I charge for all I care. It's not immoral (although it may be stupid business.) This is one of our great problems in our country today. People can have honest differing opinions about things (such as how to price products in a business) and it deteriorates into a name calling mud slinging conversation. The other side is "immoral" or doesn't have the same high moral standards as the other.

Now answer me some questions without any added stuff. Just answer the questions:

1- What website puts the actual sale price of a car? To my knowledge they either leave the asking price or wipe out the price altogether. Give me concrete examples otherwise.

2- Who here has bought a car from Tony that was not what he said it was? Or give us the name and phone number of someone who has. No more blabbing ... pony up the info.

3- RAMKING - do you know for a fact the engine was a restamp? Who restamped it? Let's stop messing around and get to the nitty gritty here.

One last thing to those who say it's not about prices but integrity ... look at all the PY and CP posts about Tony. It ALWAYS STARTS OFF ABOUT PRICES! Each and every time. It's not about Hurst wheels, numbers this, numbers that, or anything else. It's always about money. Then when someone jumps in (ie: me) it turns into morality, etc etc. If that was the case then you shouldn't deal with Tony even if he sold you RA IV Judge Convertibles for $20,000 or would you guys deal with a "crook" if his prices were less? How moral is that? Why ALWAYS THE MENTION OF MONEY?

I will not go any further with this than to say that I never have, and never will, condone any selling practices that are illegal or immoral. That goes for me, my friend, or any one of you high moral individuals.

70ramair455 out.

[taximan]

70ramair455,

I don't think anyone on this forum is "out to get Tony". I didn't buy a car from Tony, but came real close. I talked to people who did buy from Tony, and got their opinions. And they were all negative. My transaction up to the point of signing on the line, was very negative.

If you combine these things with his website that shows him selling cars at 40% - 500% higher than anyone else.... doesn't this raise a red flag ??

You are certainly entitled to support him all you want, in fact you may be him !! However, I also am entitled to express my experiences in a factual manner, so that potential GTO buyers can draw there own conclusions.

Isn't that what a forum like this is all about ? If we can't give mechanical, technical, and buying advice to fellow GTO enthusiasts, what function does this forum serve ?

If someone posts a question asking for feedback on a vendor, I think the participants should post their honest and factual experience... whether it is good or bad. Then the buyer has to decide whether to do business with that person.

Lets move on to talk about the cars we love.

[SpartanMSU]

If I recall, the thread I had mentioned earlier wasn't about prices. It was about the rude responses this Tony character gave people.

Besides, your money comment is a red herring. That being said, people have the right to sell their items and do so with without harrassment, but when you ask prices like he does, he makes himself susceptible to that kind of behavior.

[70ramair455]

TAXIMAN:

I understand and support your last post entirely. There is nothing to dispute. But remember, look back at this post to see, this all started with $$$$$. The almighty dollar. (Ooops ... BTW ... No I am not him lol lol) It wasn't about buying experiences. If too many people have negative buying experiences from Tony then he won't last in business. I'm just left wondering ... are the people who buy from him (and he does sell lots of cars) all idiots? They seem to keep coming back and buying so I wonder what's up?

SPARTANMSU:

I respect your opinion but can't disagree more. It is that attitude that encourages fans to go to ballparks and cuss out high priced players. Just because someone is high priced (and Tony we all agree is) that does not corrolate to being susceptible to being questioned on their integrity and character. That's a horrible way to live.

You know how I know this is all a crock? Because EVERYONE HERE WITHOUT EXCEPTION is always looking for maximum price they can get on their Goats and parts.

Notice how no one has answered my three questions above? Their silence is deafening.

I respect you guys. Hell I LOVE anyone who loves Pontiacs like I do. I'm not defending Tony in particular ... my main purpose (if you'll look back at my first posts) was to ask everyone to stop moaning and groaning about high prices when they too ask ridiculous prices for their own wares.

As a second purpose I was just trying to defend someone who'm I've grown to know over the past 4 years (he's not a soccor dad - he's a wrestling coach lol lol) and that's all their is to it. Hopefully you guys would do the same.

If Tony is doing something WRONG then call him on it. High prices is not wrong. Buying product from someone and reselling at 100x what he paid is not wrong (as long as it's not gouging in a market like selling water for 100 dollars a glass after a hurricane or something like that) in a free market where free people have free choices and are under no compulsion to buy.

I've conceded many points here but don't see the same grace being extended to me (I know I've made at least ONE valid point lol lol)

God bless you all.

[BLKBRD]

Not to drag this out, but I'd like to add my personal experience with Custom Classic. I did almost buy a car from Tony approximately 2.5 years ago. Although the car was overpriced in my opinion, it appeared to be exactly what I was looking for. Knowing that you don't come across a numbers matching '69 RA IV 4-spd Judge every day, I was willing to pay a premium. The car was described as a solid #2 car. I specifically asked Tony on no less than three ocassions if there was any patch work or body filler on the car, and I was told that there wasn't. I flew to New jersey to inspect the car intending to purchase it on the spot. I arrived at his business address, which turned out to be a delapidated body shop that didn't even have a paint booth. When I asked where Tony was, the guy running the shop asked "why do you want to know?". He eventually put me in touch with Tony and I met him at a gas station down the road. As you can imagine, I was seeing many red flags at this point. He took me to a storage facility where he keeps his cars and showed me the car that I was interested in. After inspecting the car for approximately 10 minutes, I told Tony that I was not interested. The condition of the car was grossly misrepresented. There wasn't a single panel on this car that wasn't loaded with body filler from a very poor rust repair job, among other issues. It was obvious that Tony didn't feel that the condition of this car warrented anything more than a quick bondo and paint job. I returned home to receive a scathing e-mail from Tony as to how little I know about cars, that I had wasted his time, and that he was glad that I didn't buy the car because he would sell it for $10k buy the end of that week. He did eventually sell the car, and for what price I do not know, but it did stay on his "lot" for quite some time after I walked. I don't blame the guy for trying to get "over the top" dollar. If someone is willing to pay it, then it's worth it. I certainly was willing to pay it, but not for that car. I will personally never do business with him again. My experience has shown him to be a dishonest business man and a poor sport. I just hope that he is able to put his business practices aside when coaching young impressionable minds.