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KEN CROCIE · 03-15-2005, 11:39 AM

Let me see if I can simplify this for D J.You dont need a comp. tester to test COMPRESSION!You just need to know if you have some or not.Pull all the plugs,spin the motor over,put your thumb on a spark plug hole and see if it's got compression.If it does,your dist timing is probably off--by a bunch.Remove the driver side valve cover.Observe the # 1 int. rocker(2nd one back)Turn the motor by hand using a 15/16 socket and wrench handle applied to the crank bolt.turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation((clockwise-you in front of the motor(same way the starter turns it)).watch the int. valve open(compresses valve spring) and close.Keep turning until the timing mark on the balancer comes up to the zero mark on the timing cover. does not have too be precise--10deg either way is good enough.At this position the rotor in the dist. should be aiming @ the #1 plug wire.Fill the carb with fuel thru the vent tube.when it starts dripping out of the booster ,you have enough.Test the accl. pump now.

David Jones · 03-15-2005, 12:10 PM

George, I was on TDC on the power stroke. I would have thought that at or around TDC on the power stroke the valves would be fully closed and hence the the rockers "loose". I was just curious about the looseness not happening until just past TDC on #1 on the balancer. On the comp stroke.
Hard to explain this stuff though a keyboard.

Ken, I understand the basics. Well, let me refraise that. Up until this episode, I thought I did.

The carb is truly a mystery for me and I will try your accelerator pump test and see what happens. I'm not sure if you read the whole thread (turning into a book) but the distributor is in correctly in relationship to TDC on the comp stroke on #1. All other bets are off however!
Thanks!
David

george kujanski · 03-15-2005, 12:23 PM

Yeah, on TDC on the power stroke, there should be a bunch of margin in crank rotation either way B4 the valves should move. Those lifters not bleeding down?

Begs the question, you sure it's TDC regardless of what the damper says?

George

David Jones · 03-15-2005, 12:37 PM

Million dollar question. Damper is on or about the mark. Piston is plainly visible in the spark plug hole. Didn't check the damper mark for accuracy when I had the heads off. Valves hanging open due to the lifters is a good question.

PONTIAC DUDE · 03-15-2005, 01:37 PM

Run compression test on one cylinder.
If no compression, loosen valves to .002 and recheck.
If you get your compression back, then the lifters are sticking.

David Jones · 03-15-2005, 02:15 PM

Will do.

Jim Doran · 03-15-2005, 02:27 PM

Just think on the bright side, when it does start, you won't have to worry about a cam break in procedure w/that Roller !

David, it is also easy to verify your dampner marking relative to your timing tab w/a piston stop that screws into the spark plug hole. I got mine from summit, though conceivably one could make one from a used spark plug.

Keep us posted.

David Jones · 03-15-2005, 02:33 PM

Yeah Jim, I would have probably already taken it back apart, if it was a regular hydraulic. I'm getting a lot of neat new tools out of this. I bought a set of 6pt half inch drive sockets, so I could get a good grip on the head bolt under the brake booster. Had to have a battery charger yesterday, because the battery had gone flat. Compression tester today. MDK money is going fast.....

I think I have a piston stop in my degree wheel kit.

Jeff Walker · 03-15-2005, 05:08 PM

I am not sure that this applies to your problem, but I was talking to a tech-sales person from a company that I but parts from and he told me that with todays lifters that you are NOT to soak them in oil. He said that with todays CNC machining processes that the tolerances within the lifter are much closer that ones manufactured years ago. He recommends that you just install them without soaking them, then initially ajust them on the loose side, prime the oiling system and start it up.

PONTIAC DUDE · 03-15-2005, 07:33 PM

Comp recommends soaking them as there isa lot of contamination from machining. But I have found that you have to clean them 4/5 times before soaking.

David Jones · 03-15-2005, 07:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Run compression test on one cylinder.
If no compression, loosen valves to .002 and recheck.
If you get your compression back, then the lifters are sticking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ran a test real quick this afternoon just before little league practice. Zero compression. Backed off the valves and suddenly had compression. The lifters are now soaking in mineral spirits. Dude how do I make sure they are clean, so I don't have to do this again. Comps instructions were fairly general about this. "Wash thouroughly with mineral spirits to remove all assembly grease, then soak with oil before installation" I soaked them over night in mineral spirits and them sloshed each one around in more mineral spirits before letting them dry and then soaked them in oil for a couple of days the first time. How do I get them clean so they work this time? Is there some way to verify their cleanliness or operation before they go back in?

David Jones · 03-15-2005, 07:34 PM

Wow we posted at the same time! Thats spooky! How'd you know!

PONTIAC DUDE · 03-15-2005, 07:39 PM

Bwahahahahaha.

Ya got air?
Soak, scrub and blow out the holes a few times. Both side and top.

David Jones · 03-16-2005, 04:57 AM

I have low volumn air. Maybe it will work.
Comp could do better than this.............

goatseeker · 03-16-2005, 06:25 AM

David,
Have been following your posts and I'm feeling your pain and frustration

. Seems like you're pretty close to the solution & I bet we'll be able to hear your squeals of delight when she fires up

.
Thanks to all on the board that help us mechanically challenged members keep our Pontiacs running!

David Jones · 03-16-2005, 06:44 AM

Amen to that Tim.
Thanks Folks.
Not just this thread, but for all the info in the archives.
This things gonna crank soon. After sitting in mineral spirits all night I blew all the diluted oil out of the lifters this morning. Put them back in the mineral spirits again and will blow them out again this evening before Church. Then I'll swap to some fresh mineral spirits (this is kinda oily)and repeat the process over and over until I can get a chance to put it back together again.

tremo · 03-17-2005, 12:02 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...this evening before Church. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't forget to say a prayer while you're there!

The saga continues...

Jim.

buwalda · 03-17-2005, 04:19 AM

I think the idea of soaking roller lifters in oil is to thoroughly pre-lubricate the roller & needle bearings, rather than get oil into the plunger chamber.

David Jones · 03-17-2005, 04:37 AM

From what I'm seeing, these look to be defective.6 of these have some plunger movement. 10 of them are solid as a rock. That doesn't sound right to me. This is after much soaking and air cleaning.

Droptop64 · 03-17-2005, 06:30 AM

David,
I'm wondering if the problem is not with the lifters at all, but similar to what I ran into several times when removing heads, doing complete rebuilds and all that.
It may sound kinda dumb, but get a pump can and squirt 1 or 2 hits of regular motor oil in each plug hole, make sure you got things back together right like in your original post. Sometimes when the cylinder walls are dry, the compression is marginal, and usually just enough to do stupid stuff like make carburetor fires due to late/lazy flame propigation in the cylinders. This oil trick has always worked for me. Good Luck.

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