[Rx:GTO daily]

Any idea when "perfect" copies of Judges began to appear or became common place? I'm not talking wings & decals. I mean when people started spending the bucks on faking (or replacing missing) proper blocks/getting correct intakes/heads/carbs, etc. As mentioned earlier, it seems 1981 was way too early for anyone to waste even 5 bucks on this kind of work (I have nightmares of what we did to these kind'o cars in 81--spending $$ on original parts was not 1 of them!!). The value just wasn't there yet. Even 1991 seems a bit early, but we could attribute this to excellent gambling on the previous owner's/faker's/replacer's part. Of course that would be like going out tomorrow and restamping/faking a 1983 Mustang 5.0 (or whatever). Anyone breaking open their wallet on that roll of the dice?? Let's be real, faking a GTO was no one's first choice in those (81 or 91) days. Your money would have been much more wisely spent faking a 'vette or 'velle or hemi. And, in 81, even on these cars, we still would have been trashing original parts in order to make room for "high performance" parts! Hate to say that's the voice of experience!

[carbking]

Rx:GTO daily - actually, there WERE far-sighted people that were doing number matching restorations on GTO's (primarily RA IV's and Judges) in 1981. Not many, but a few. At that time, one could still find cars with original blocks, heads, etc. One often had to find original manifolds and carburetors (HRM "get rid of that quadrajunk and buy a Holley"), acquire original exhaust manifolds (headers), and acquire original wheels (Cragers). Dealer installed options were also hot.

I have personally seen restamped carburetors (7029273 especially) as early as 1980; definately not the sophication level as those of today, but restamped being sold as original. Still the very best restamps I have yet seen came out of southern California in the late 1980's. This guy could weld a fly's wings together while the fly was in the air!

I am aware of a 1964 LeMans convertible that was cloned locally into a 1964 GTO in 1985. And yes, it was sold as a GTO.

It has been going on a long time , but if one were not in the restoration business, one might not have noticed.

Jon.

[BLKBRD]

This is just a guess, but I don't believe that the guy that I bought the car from purchased the engine in 1992. He had the car for 10 years before I bought it, and it was never registered during that time period. I suspect that he may have purchased the engine closer to the 2000 time frame. These cars were starting to increase in value at that time, but still had not gone insane.

[allmycarsrjunk]

Originally Posted by Mike Lannom

I think it's kinda odd that it seems more GTO's prior to vin stamping seem to have the original engines and nobody questions the cars value. Knowing what I have seen in the car hobby I wouldn't pay extra for a numbers matching car unless I have known the car since new. BLKBIRD I wouldn't worry about a restamp block I think original engines are way over rated and are going to become less an issue as time passes. This is only my $.02 worth

I agree, in fact it is already happening,. Blackbird, I love your car, restamp or not. If the market holds, you won't lose money on that car if you choose to resell it. Ram Air IV Judges are highly sought after, when will that change? What would a guy looking for a Ram Air IV Judge, be willing to pay for one that is in decent shape, without original block. It is common knowledge, that several have sold for over $50,000. I would gladly pay 40,000 for such a car.

[Steve Hoog]

BLKBRD

Just talked to him yesterday about your motor, he still hasn't checked but is going to do it when he gets down to where they are stored.

[BLKBRD]

Baron and a allmycarsarejunk,

Thanks for the input. When I get a chance, I'll take some pictures of the block stampings to see what others think of the quality of the restamp job. Someone had serious intensions of getting this thing back to it's original state.


steved400,

Thanks for the update.

[Rx:GTO daily]

Thanks for the info Jon (carbking)!! In my own tiny, lil mind, I obviously, thought that faking goats in the 80's was a super unusual occurence. Having seen enuf of your postings, Jon, I know that you know of what you speak!! Again, thanks for your info!!
To the owner of the RAIV...I express the same sentiments as posted by others...I would be thrilled to death to own your car! Obviously the guy went through every possible contortion to create a proper looking RA4.
Personally, and this is ONLY MY opinion, If it is not original (actual block, etc), then it hardly matters (to me anyway), what resides under the hood! Original block missing?? Have fun and do whatever you want!! I can relate to the guys were the only important thing is those original parts and once that has been made impossible (by block having been replaced/destroyed/whatever), then to me who cares?!? The only thing I hope to see is a Poncho engine under the hood...455, 400, 421...whatever floats your boat!
The reason I thought faking goats in the 80's was a super rarity revolves around the horror stories I can attest to. My 2 favorite are these (guaranteed to give douche chills to any cheby guy):
1. ~1979 I can vividly remember the sight of my buddy using a craftsman screwdriver to "pop" the fuel injection tags off his vette....why? cuz, "this FI bites and I'm putting a 4 bbl on!"
2. MY FAVORITE...1983, I can still, to this day, picture the intake and carb from my friends 450hp/454 1970 Chebelle SS (blue w/white stripes/white gut) sitting in the trash. Actually, I can actually see it there in the trash can, leaning up against the side of the can. This was all so we could make room for the dual quad setup that he just had to have!! I wish,at the least, that I had that manifold carb setup today!
Anyway, thanks again for the info guys!! blkbrd...enjoy your car!!!