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TTS · 01-28-2009, 01:22 PM

Same thing I said, only much better.

jakeshoe · 01-28-2009, 08:49 PM

Cliff,
Your theory sounds good but I still disagree with the trans actually seeing more torque because it's a Pontiac, undersquare, low rpm, heavy internals, etc.

If you have a 3700 lb car, with 600 lb/ft of torque, and we'll say it's running mid 10's.
Most cars in this range are hanging the tires off the line, so the trans is seeing all 600 lbs of torque. Whether the converter is flashing to 3600 rpm to launch or 5600 rpm, at the point of the car launching, the input shaft, output shaft, and every part between it are seeing the full load of the torque, whether it be a Pontiac, Ford, or Toyota in front of it.

I know you like the Continental converters and they have a loyal following amongst the Pontiac crowd, but Continental sells converters for other combos, and there are other converters that achieve very good efficiency above the stall speed, and still flash to near engine peak torque. It's not a secret that only Continental or the Pontiac crowd has figured out.

Where are the dyno sheets... Ya'll find a good Pontiac dyno sheet and I'll do the research to find a similar other combo, cid, cam, etc to compare...

critter · 01-28-2009, 09:44 PM

I've got a better idea. My car makes about 400hp and 500 ft. lbs. of torque. Build a 200-4r for me, I'll install it and go racing. You pick the converter.

Now all I need is the money.

jakeshoe · 01-28-2009, 09:52 PM

Your car is an excellent candidate for a 200-4R. When you get ready for one, let me know. Go ahead and up the power to 600 lb/ft and we'll disprove the naysayers and I'll give a sweetheart deal on the trans. (Parts and core, no labor)

Jake

Thomasmoto · 01-28-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakeshoe

Your car is an excellent candidate for a 200-4R. When you get ready for one, let me know. Go ahead and up the power to 600 lb/ft and we'll disprove the naysayers and I'll give a sweetheart deal on the trans. (Parts and core, no labor)

Jake

OK my new engine will be 600 lb/ft just on motor. 750 ft/lb on spray. I'll make the same offer. My 79 TA is 4015 lbs with a 3:23 rear gear. You send me one for 25 passes at no charge and if it will just get the car back on the trailer after the 25th pass I'll pay you double your reg fee for it. No joking. I've been drag racing for 30 years and you can ask anyone about me. I KEEP MY WORD.
David T

critter · 01-28-2009, 10:30 PM

Wow. I didn't mean to start something here. All I'm saying is that we keep hearing from two camps on these trannies. It would be nice to settle it in a real world test. I want to go on record right here as saying I'm not trying to cause a stink.

Overkillphil · 01-28-2009, 10:57 PM

Actually the fact that there are so many reliable units in service proves they can be good. This would be true even if there was only one reliable unit known. Of course, everyone would want to know "how" in the latter case.

The broken ones just prove that there are builders without sufficient expertise with these particular trannys, or they are being used behind engines with obscene power levels.

242177P · 01-28-2009, 11:19 PM

I too believe critter's car would be ideal. Please take him up on the generous offer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasmoto

750 ft/lb on spray.

Not doubting your word, but you did neglect to mention whether these passes would be N/A or not...

BTW, Turbo Buicks make their torque down low. I bet most Pontiacs have higher shift points, and Grand Nationals aren't light cars.

jakeshoe · 01-28-2009, 11:24 PM

The offer stands,
ONE PY forum members gets a 200-4R for a 550-600 lb/ft combo, labor on the build is free. Preferably a car that sees track usage pretty often. high 10s low 11's...

I REALLY don't need the "practice" and I, as well as others, have proven them worthy at these power levels.

It's not the unit of choice for an 8 or 9 second car, but it will handle a 10 or 11 second ride, EVEN a PONTIAC!

Also,
Look for a 200-4R in a 8.50 car within the next year.... They are already in 9 second GN's, so there are other builders doing one for a 8.50 car. I spoke with one of them last night.
When it happens I'll post it up here. They need an output shaft to make it happen..

Cliff R · 01-29-2009, 10:49 AM

Jake, don't think I ever said that Pontiac engines are the ONLY ones that are hard on drivetrain parts. Dyno sheets or not, 600ft lbs of torque to the tires without any tire spin is hitting the drivetrain pretty hard, and will quickly find the weak spots. The engine used really doesn't matter, a big Buick, Olds or Rat motor can easily be set up with tractor engine characteristics, and be equally as hard on the drivetrain.

I've got the money and still have ZERO interest in the offer, we'll stick with the TH400. The same transmission has been in service for us now since the early 80's with one freshening up in 2001. It has survived 6 different engines, and thousands of dragstrip runs with good traction. When I see a 200 hold even half that well, I'll go on your build list for one........Cliff

Thomasmoto · 01-29-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakeshoe

The offer stands,
ONE PY forum members gets a 200-4R for a 550-600 lb/ft combo, labor on the build is free. Preferably a car that sees track usage pretty often. high 10s low 11's...

I REALLY don't need the "practice" and I, as well as others, have proven them worthy at these power levels.

It's not the unit of choice for an 8 or 9 second car, but it will handle a 10 or 11 second ride, EVEN a PONTIAC!

Also,
Look for a 200-4R in a 8.50 car within the next year.... They are already in 9 second GN's, so there are other builders doing one for a 8.50 car. I spoke with one of them last night.
When it happens I'll post it up here. They need an output shaft to make it happen..

Critter, I'll be happy to defer to your seniority here.
David T

jakeshoe · 01-29-2009, 01:58 PM

David,
I would love to build one for your car, but I'm offering free labor, not a free transmission.

The parts are about $1500 for a build on your car, my cost. Let me see what I can put together though...

Overkillphil · 01-29-2009, 04:11 PM

Jake, what converter would you recommend with that build? Recommend Lockup or non-lockup?

As far as shipping, I'm guessing in the neighborhood of $200-250 to the NE?

Skip Fix · 01-29-2009, 06:18 PM

Very interesting, might have to take one up I-45 my pump gas motor is right in there.

TTS · 01-29-2009, 06:20 PM

It's not that it can't be done, it certainly can.

A 4L80E would be a much better option.

Anywhere under 600hp with rear gearing up to 3.55, I'd much rather have a 700-R4 than a 200-4R in a street car. Gearing above that, I prefer a 200-4R. Neither belong in a race car.

critter · 01-29-2009, 08:27 PM

Seniority? LOL. Did you hear I turned 50 a week back?

I'll defer to someone else right now. My car would be a good test bed but I don't really have the money or the inclination for another transmission swap at this point. Jake, thanks for the offer. It was very generous.

Overkillphil · 01-30-2009, 03:25 PM

This should answer alot of questions and resolve alot of arguments in this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLDgQg6bq7o

critter · 01-30-2009, 03:57 PM

LOL. Turboencapsulator. I laugh every time I watch that.

Half-Inch Stud · 01-31-2009, 05:23 PM

Holy smokes, there's several versions of that video.

Bandit400 · 01-31-2009, 09:10 PM

Jakeshoe, I may be a candidate for this proposition. I was the one who started the "200-4r rebuild at home, feasible?" thread and I have cash in the bank, along with an engine making around 550-600 ft/lbs. I am ready right now to buy a trans as the driveline is just about ready to go in, and it will be going in a full weight '70 Firebird, similar to critter's setup. I would be ready to go when you are. Interested? :-)

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