[Cliff R]

"my stock e-head 462 made 470hp with the xe274, i was planning on pulling it this winter for the 60919."

We built a 455 here with unported 87cc Edelbrock heads and the Crower 60919 cam. It made 505hp/551tq on KRE's dyno. (Some consider KRE's dyno a tad conservative.)

The engine was installed in a 71 FB at 3900lbs, 10" converter, 3.90 gears. It ran 11.50's at 118mph on it's first outing, driven to the track that day as well.

An XE274 cam in the exact same engine would be hard pressed to make that much power simply because it gives up over 30 degrees off seat valve timing, less overlap, tighter LSA, and earlier intake valve closing point. It's going to run 3-5 tenths slower with the same drivetrain set-up, IMHO.

The "propoganda" that surrounds those particular lobes, is that you can give up off seat valve timing, reduce overlap with quick closing/opening events, tighten up the LSA, and add "better" lobes and get it all back with more "area under the curve". Sounds good when you are advertising camshafts, however, withing the limits of the lifter diameter and flat cam lobes, it isn't going to make up all that ground in actual use. This comment doesn't even take into consideration that the really fast seat timing events can produce valvetrain instability "issues" which are a real possibility from these lobe profiles. We've witnessed this first hand, right on the dyno, and there have been plenty of examples of this happening if anyone takes a look at some of the dyno results that have been posted on this and other websites........Cliff

[roadrage david]

My frinds car 69 firebird 400 . Kaufman eagle stroker rotating asembly 461ci ross pistons. Kaufman Edelheads, 1.65 roller rockers, Torker manifold 60919 Cam." elec fuel injection, 3:91 rear ratio, , 4 speed auto, P 275 /40R17 MT drag radials, 12,00 sec...

Other Frinds car 1971 Formula 455 ho. ""used""to have that car craft bold on parts combo TWR pistons, stok rotating asembly 455 engine
edel heads (out of the box) 1.65 roller rockkers xe274 ,performer rpm manifold 850 demon carb, 3.42 rear ratio, 4 speed auto. 295 /65R15, BF goodrich drag radial, 12,12 sec.
Both cars stock weight full interiors elect windows.Botch afthermarket leaf springs, koni shocks.
. Its been known that usa bought cars/ engine combo,s drive a averich of 0.7 to 0.8 sec slower overhere in the Netherlands .....



PS some XE lobe propaganda ..............

This morning, Corey Thompson called. His '70 Firebird went 10.38 a couple times this weekend, over 129 MPH. Pump gas, 3,400 lbs. 461, "junk" Eagle crank (540 passes so far...), junk Comp XE cam, junk Edelbrock open plenum, junk AED Holley... Just think how quick he'd be with a factory iron crank and intake, Ram Air IV cam and a Q-Jet!!! Sorry. Just tired of hearing about how much better engines built with those parts are, and ignoring how their cars are only a second or so slower... (:-

[PONTIAC-ONE]

Originally Posted by roadrage david

PS some XE lobe propaganda ..............

This morning, Corey Thompson called. His '70 Firebird went 10.38 a couple times this weekend, over 129 MPH. Pump gas, 3,400 lbs. 461, "junk" Eagle crank (540 passes so far...), junk Comp XE cam, junk Edelbrock open plenum, junk AED Holley... Just think how quick he'd be with a factory iron crank and intake, Ram Air IV cam and a Q-Jet!!! Sorry. Just tired of hearing about how much better engines built with those parts are, and ignoring how their cars are only a second or so slower... (:-

An XE274 cam or a larger XE grind going that fast ??

...just asking because this thread is about the 274 cam.

[ry57pont]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

"my stock e-head 462 made 470hp with the xe274, i was planning on pulling it this winter for the 60919."

ry57pont- Curious, and for conversation around the coffe table here.... why the change and what do you expect to gain.

And your compression ratio ?

why the change? winter boredom. actually i planned on pulling it to have my cast eagle crank checked for cracks and fix a oil leak. and based on reading many of the posts i thought the 60919 would be a cheap 25hp. i actually do not have a good understanding why, but for the little cost of a cam and dyno time i thought it would be a fun expierement. i can always go back to the xe. or.... i thought i would call SD and see about a custom. i would really like to get into the mid 11's and think 25-30hp more might do it. - Ryan

ps. does the 60919 have a smoother idle? for me, the idle lump lump is part of the whole expierence, i was so disapointed when i put my x over exhaust in, it mellowed out the exhaust alot. thats also why i wont give up the third pedal.

[PONTIAC LARRY]

Do I need to build my 63 Lemans drag car with a Summit cam to show its 11 sec potential? All I am saying is a 224 int with a 114 lsa icl 109 has a better idle, vacuum , mileage and driveability versus a 230int 110 lsa 106 icl and if RRDave thinks ruinning 12.0 with Alum heads is good in a Fbird, its not. I would call that a turd and the XE cam is holding it back. The Buick wagon is a great running car, I am making no knocks at it.
Its an generally underachiever cam and people are hypnotized by the brand name and advertising wanting a sound before best bang for the buck. Wheres the 11.5 street car with a XE274???? Silence is deafening... 42 year old cams can do it.

[roadrage david]

I think the underachievmend lias with the folks that cant make them work!!!.. the above post is a part from pontiac zone post from CVMS..
this is the part i left out
Last weekend, Rick Holladay and his old Goat went 10.48 @ 129.5 (TWICE!!). 434 CID, AED Holley, T-2... E-heads ported here... 3,510 lbs...

Gene Kinch's "Gallopin' Goat" went 9.93 @ 134... Iron d-ports, 20 year old UD cam... (:-

Lastly, Dan (PinBallDan) got thrown out of Richmond Dragway AGAIN... For going 11.20 without a cage. More of those junk parts... (:- 20K street mles and over 250 passes.

If you build a purpose car everyting is posible. a simple 11.50 statemend with a ram air IV cam isend doing it eather..

[Brent Flynn]

Cant we all just get along? I dont know anything bout these XE274 cams, but, ive had alot of experience with Comp Solids and small Hyd .500 lift UD cams and Engle cams of the same size. Im used to running about 11:1 compression or more. I believe my engines with 11:1 were reduced to 9 1/2:1 would run very close to the same with the cams im runnin. Id lose some e.t., but, not too much. .01-.02 max. And i would still be
runnin 11.70s in the bird and 12.40s in the 62 Cat that weighs 4100lbs. Both of these cars have unported 62s and 48s on them. So either the xe274 cam is total junk or the combos havent been nailed right on the head with some of the guys that are having issues getting good e.t. out of them. Probably converters or gears , exhaust, quality of headwork(valve job), engine tune are all playing a part. Surely the cam cant be that bad if comp makes it. My stuff works so good, i wouldnt change it for anything. And, i wasnt callin anyone SHirley!! hehehe! Also... you either have a chassis set up for racing or you dont.... that makes a hell of alot of difference. JMO

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Nothing wrong with the 274XE cam. For a street driver. Or occasional trip to the track to have fun. Just tune on the combo when it's done and go have fun.

[slowbird]

Our Ventura ran 11.88@115 with the xe274 cam.

[aktattoo]

Originally Posted by roadrage david

I think the underachievmend lias with the folks that cant make them work!!!.. the above post is a part from pontiac zone post from CVMS..
this is the part i left out
Last weekend, Rick Holladay and his old Goat went 10.48 @ 129.5 (TWICE!!). 434 CID, AED Holley, T-2... E-heads ported here... 3,510 lbs...

Gene Kinch's "Gallopin' Goat" went 9.93 @ 134... Iron d-ports, 20 year old UD cam... (:-

Lastly, Dan (PinBallDan) got thrown out of Richmond Dragway AGAIN... For going 11.20 without a cage. More of those junk parts... (:- 20K street mles and over 250 passes.

If you build a purpose car everyting is posible. a simple 11.50 statemend with a ram air IV cam isend doing it eather..

i read that whole thread and do they have a bias against the RAIV. they say its junk they love the xe274 over there. i got a RAIV for my car. i just hope i made the right choice.

[PONTIAC LARRY]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Our Ventura ran 11.88@115 with the xe274 cam.

Thats very good to hear and it was in a well setup 406 ci that seems better suited for that cam versus a 455.

[Brent Flynn]

Originally Posted by aktattoo

i read that whole thread and do they have a bias against the RAIV. they say its junk they love the xe274 over there. i got a RAIV for my car. i just hope i made the right choice.

I'd say for the weight of your car, the duration of a RAIV is alot. A shorter duration comp .480/280duration would probably give you better results. It takes some gear and converter to make the RAIV cam work real well. Big duration kills torque. It will be ok, sound good and all that, but it will be somewhat lazy in the lower rpm range(where you will be cruising). Just my 2cents

[PONTIAC LARRY]

Originally Posted by Brent Flynn

I'd say for the weight of your car, the duration of a RAIV is alot. A shorter duration comp .480/280duration would probably give you better results. It takes some gear and converter to make the RAIV cam work real well. Big duration kills torque. It will be ok, sound good and all that, but it will be somewhat lazy in the lower rpm range(where you will be cruising). Just my 2cents

Ditto.. 70 Bonnie waaay to heavy for that cam. Assuming you have the orig 2.93 gear and possibly stock exhaust manfolds or headers? If you dont want to go smaller on cam, I would get a nice "Jim Hand" Continental converter and 3.23's or 3.42's with some nice headers. Biggest cam I would run is 2802 and maybe just a 2801 if you wants keep stock stall and gears.

[Mikes455Wagon]

Originally Posted by Brent Flynn

I'd say for the weight of your car, the duration of a RAIV is alot. A shorter duration comp .480/280duration would probably give you better results. It takes some gear and converter to make the RAIV cam work real well. Big duration kills torque. It will be ok, sound good and all that, but it will be somewhat lazy in the lower rpm range(where you will be cruising). Just my 2cents

I agree totally. Too much cam with no gear, alot of weight, no compression, and bone stock heads is a very easy way to get disappointed the first time you decide to romp on it and nothing happens. If you just want the seat of your pants feel with a mild motor combo, run the Summit 2800. It has made tire smoking torque on the street in both motors we have ran it in. Good bang for the buck if ya wanna impress your buddies. I ran 8.40-8.50s with that cam in the 1/8th in my wagon with a 400 with 143 heads (67 crap 2 barrell small valve heads) and a stock torque converter.

[Region Warrior]

My daughter managed 12.01 @ 114.93 lifting at 1000'(pass'n slower car).
3450lbs off idle(700 rpm).
455/untouched 87cc e-hds(10.2 cr)/JUNK raiv cam w/STOCK lifters(not anti pump up)/rpm int w/850 carb.
Stock big car th400 and 3.42's. "forgot-3000 stall cnvtr".
Stuff had lay'n around and threw together.
She still broke out(12.18 run before-figured a 12.10) and we didnt get another chance to find out what a full run would do.
Oh ya, thats with 87 octane from local Shell station.

[TinjunTribe]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

My daughter managed 12.01 @ 114.93 lifting at 1000'(pass'n slower car).
.

The other car probably had an XE cam,.........

[Region Warrior]

OUCH!

[Cliff R]

I'd say the most accurate statement made in the last dozen posts concerning the original topic was that the XE274 grind is better suited to the 400 engine than the 455.

I've seen that cam fair pretty well in a couple of 400 builds, but seldom in 455 builds.

The big 455 engines don't need short seat timing events, or tight LSA's with small camshafts. Those cams simply try to pull power down in the rpm range, and concentrate more of it in the mid-range.

The undersquare 455 Pontiac engine topped with cylinder heads no better than mid-level SBC's use doesn't want or need any more low end or mid-range power, or concentration of power earlier in the rpm range. They need to have the power spread out some, and respond well to cams a LOT of seat to seat timing, with some overlap and wide LSA.

We've seen this over and over again on the dyno, and with many street 455 set-ups. To date I've never once been the least bit impressed with a small/tight LSA camshaft, Comp XE or otherwise in a 455 street engine.

Every single time we stick a wide LSA cam in them with some decent off seat timing they tear your head slam off till you decide to move the shifter! Case in point, 455, KRE aluminum "D" ports, 230/236/114 HR camshaft.....502hp/599tq, never did quit making power till ya decided to shift it!

My old 455 engine with unported KRE heads and a Crower RAIV cam, 231/240/113, 494hp and pushed my daily driver car to 11.64 @ 116MPH in full street trim.

And yes, we used the crappy iron intakes and quadra-junks on both of those engines. We didn't dare put T-II's and AED's on them, we'd have got thrown off the track for running into the 10's!.....LOL.....Cliff

[Mr. P-Body]

I generally avoid these discussion anymore because there are too many "opinions" involved.

I DO apologize for the out-of-context "quote" from another site. If one were to read the entire thread, it wouldn't "sound" like it does. I don't LIKE out-of-context, even if it is intended to "favor" me. I NEVER called the 041 ANYTHING except obsolete. Certainly didn't use the word "junk". And I STILL recommend that cam when compression is high enough to make it worthwhile. GREAT cam in many applications.

The low-11 and mid-10 second cars discussed do not have XE274H. They ALL have XE cams, but they're solid rollers. They use the same "fast ramp" technology as the other XE grinds, and ALL other Comp offerings with "Xtreme" in the name. Lunati "VooDoo" and Bullit grinds, as well as the old UltraDynes, use this same technology. Harold Brookshire, a former Comp engineer, the founder of UD, went to Lunati and is now at General Kinetics, is the genius behind the "assymetric" lobe designs.

I recommend XE274H when compression is below 9.5:1 (iron) and 10.2:1 (aluminum) for a street-driven car "with attitude". I do NOT recommend it for "racing".

Our "job" (engine builders) is to make our customers happy. If "peak numbers" is what makes them happy, fine. Usually, it's a fun car to drive with some "ass when you kick it" that makes them happy. To date, I've had only one complaint about the power "curve" of the XE274H, and that was from an individual that "got the fever" immediately after he began driving his car after a LONG "down time" for restoration. The cam and heads were no longer "enough" for him. The original job DID meet the criteria he set out.

So enough with all this back-and-forth crap!

Jim

[ry57pont]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

I'd say the most accurate statement made in the last dozen posts concerning the original topic was that the XE274 grind is better suited to the 400 engine than the 455.

is that statement true with stroked 400's?- Ryan