[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

In my opinion, these are flat out some of the coolest looking cars on any track.

Finally something I agree with on this thread. These cars are the most volatile cars in oval racing, too bad with a 410 Cu in limit there are no Pontiac powered ones. 1375 lbs with driver and almost 900 HP make for a wild ride as well as a spectacle to watch. If you come home from the races without some of the track sticking to ya, ya got cheated. Asphalt is for getting to the races, dirt's for racin on!!!!
'
My favorite form of racing head and shoulders over anything else. Funny thing is no matter what's under the hood, they all have virtually the same bodies on them too, boring, I hardly think so....................................

[Mr_GTO]

Chevy to replace Impala in 2013 with another Chevy brand: Chevrolet is developing a new car with a new name for its 2013 NASCAR entry, replacing the Impala used by Team Chevy, and plans to eventually market and sell the new model to consumers. The dealership and racing versions of the car will be unveiled this year, after the New York auto show in April, spokesman Monte Doran said. The new car will use a nameplate not currently in Chevy's lineup. Neither the car nor its name will be a derivative of an existing one, such as the new Malibu or the upcoming redesigned Impala, Doran said. General Motors wouldn't reveal details. "We are keeping the wraps on the new car for now and will continue to prepare for next season by testing camouflaged vehicles," Jim Campbell, vice president of Chevrolet performance vehicles and motorsports, said in a statement. "We know that Chevrolet fans are eager to see the new race car, and we hope that the prospect of being able to own one just like it will make the wait a little more bearable."
The new car may be a version of the Chevy Caprice currently imported from Australia for U.S. police forces. Inside GM, a plan to develop a Chevy performance sedan like the Caprice for consumers was on-and-off in recent years because of concerns that it wasn't a high-profit vehicle, people familiar with the situation said. Australia's Holden brand currently offers consumers a variation on the U.S. Caprice. Along with developing the new performance sedan, GM is redesigning the current Impala, which will be built at the Detroit-Hamtramck plant and is expected to hit showrooms by spring 2013. The automaker is also rolling out a redesigned Malibu.(Detroit Free Press, more at MotorTrend and a past post at AutoWeek)(3-13-2013)

[hurryinhoosier62]

I could definitely support a Vintage NASCAR series!! I've always said IF NASCAR wanted to slow down the cars and improve the "show", you lower the c/r to no higher than 10:1,set max engine size @ 400ci and limit the number of aerodynamic aids. The average fan can't tell the difference between 170mph and 200mph anyway.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

I could definitely support a Vintage NASCAR series!! I've always said IF NASCAR wanted to slow down the cars and improve the "show", you lower the c/r to no higher than 10:1,set max engine size @ 400ci and limit the number of aerodynamic aids. The average fan can't tell the difference between 170mph and 200mph anyway.

Aren't they already limited to 355 cu in?

K

[Gulliver]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

.......The average fan can't tell the difference between 170mph and 200mph anyway......

I'm apparently not the "average fan". Probably wouldn't be as noticeable from the couch.. but watching Nascar races on TV is one thing, sitting trackside is an altogether different experience..

[60man]

Originally Posted by Gulliver

I'm apparently not the "average fan". Probably wouldn't be as noticeable from the couch.. but watching Nascar races on TV is one thing, sitting trackside is an altogether different experience..

X2 on that....Sit on front row of short track....watch the drag race off the corners ...carring the front wheel...

About the same as watching a 12 second car and then watch a 9 second car...big difference..but on TV....not much difference...

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 60man

X2 on that....Sit on front row of short track....watch the drag race off the corners ...carring the front wheel...

About the same as watching a 12 second car and then watch a 9 second car...big difference..but on TV....not much difference...

You mean something like this...



Or this...



Like Gulliver said - I'm not an average fan... But then, average fans don't get to be as close to the racing action as I was when I took those shots...

[Stuart]

There are already vintage racing organizations for stock cars; although they mostly are for cars from the 1980s and early 1990s, I've seen photos of people racing earlier cars at some events as well.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Keith,

Yes, they are; however, every engine setup is different. NASCAR is constantly playing with rod c-to-c, stroke and compression height. My plan would limit c/r to 10:1 MAX(current c/r is 14:1) and set a displacement limit of 400ci. No more jacking around with internal specs. As long as it doesn't exceed 400ci, the governing body wouldn't care.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Gulliver,

I,too, prefer to watch races in person, but I'll make a bet with you. A six-pack of your favorite beer says you can't guess the speed within 5mph or laptime within 5secs WITHOUT a stop watch.

[John V.]

Keith, I think it is actually 358.

I only attended one Nascar race, the last Daytona 500 before the resurfacing. I was very disappointed and went home early enough to see the finish on TV. We've discussed the live vs. TV before but I still have no interest to go back. Whereas I would do the SpeedTech Auto Racing School at Atlanta again in a heartbeat.

Since the vast majority of cars today are V6, I have often wondered why Nascar doesn't switch to V6s and require stock engines with few if any mods, at least add some semblance of "stock" to the format.

The problem as I see it for most racing lies in the old adage, racing is expensive, how fast do you want to go.

With virtually unlimited budgets, we now know that you can more or less take the mystery out of racing. I think I liked it better when there was some doubt whether an engine or trans might fail. In the interest of safety (never a bad thing) we've kinda reached a point where the machinery is about bullet-proof. It still is dangerous no doubt, but if there was some doubt whether the car would hold up to the end, it would add excitement. The closest we get to that now is wondering if they'll run out of gas.

I don't watch much drag racing, but even there, equipment failure rarely seems to be an issue, tire traction issues are common but that is rarely entertaining.

I don't know how to "fix" it, but I think it would be more entertaining if the engines were more prone to failure and same engines we run on the street.

After all, as beautiful as the old Pontiacs were, the intrigue was who had the best engines. So keep the COT, but I would like to see stock engines duking it out. Make them run at the ragged edge although I'm sure the sponsors would hate all the DNFs.

Just a thought.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by John V.

With virtually unlimited budgets, we now know that you can more or less take the mystery out of racing. I think I liked it better when there was some doubt whether an engine or trans might fail. In the interest of safety (never a bad thing) we've kinda reached a point where the machinery is about bullet-proof.

Far from bullet proof...

All these driver's suffered mechanical difficulties and failed to finish the race - many of them were engine problems.

Daytona 500 - Jeff Gordon and David Stremme.

Phoenix - Marcos Ambrose, Jeff Burton, David Reutiman, Jamie McMurray, Josh Wise, Joe Nemechek, Robby Gordon, Scott Riggs and Michael McDowell.

Las Vegas - Landon Cassill, Michael McDowell, Travis Kvapil, Josh Wise, Joe Nemechek and JJ Yeley.

While some of the teams represented above are low budget teams (higher chance of failure), Jeff Gordon, Marcos Ambrose, Jeff Burton, David Reutiman and Jamie McMurray are all driving for pretty decent teams.

[Gulliver]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Gulliver,

I,too, prefer to watch races in person, but I'll make a bet with you. A six-pack of your favorite beer says you can't guess the speed within 5mph or laptime within 5secs WITHOUT a stop watch.

No, you're right- I couldn't guess it within 5mph...

But, having grown up an hour from Talladega, I didn't miss either of the 2 races per year there for many, many seasons. Too bad the cars are slower now. Last time I went was '06, I think. A band I was touring with played the Sat. nite show on the infield with .38 Special. The infield party was spectacular, Sunday's race was a total bore..

[arbys]

Inrteresting thought on the V6's. About 10-12 years ago the Busch/Nationwide series allowed V6's and V8's but the V6's got a weight break. Nationwide recently had a sealed engine rule so the motors had to be run in more than one race. You could do that in Sprint Cup and have them run 3-4 races------now that would prove interesting.

[cambirdracing]

When ESPN aired qualifying for the NHRA Arizona Nat's and there was a commercial on, wife and I would flip over to the NASCAR 75 lap race. Every time we did, there was a crash. I told my wife we should do this more often.

[Brian Baker]

A view I became familiar with as a kid in the 70's on many a Friday and Saturday night with my Dad...sitting in the stands at Beltsville Speedway, watching guys like Bobby Ballantine and Jack Bland go at it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25797947@N02/2447491920/

[tikler]

It's difficult for me to put an exact date for when i threw my hands up and said "forget it!". I believe it started with the passing of a local boy Davey Allison and accelerated with NASCAR decisions since. I can say I am totally disinterested in watching 20+ clones drive around in circles, trying to avoid each other and at the end what gets out of the cars seem like, to me, effeminate corporate spokes "people"(not men) desperately trying to sell something or not offend someone. Now, before my fellow capitalist chime in I am as aware as anyone of the importance of sponsorship money. But honestly, you've seen how overboard it can be, right? I probably am an old dinosaur spouting cliches but I'll make no apologies. I just miss the different flavors we used to have in racing. It seems watered down now. Oh my God. Did I just accuse NASCAR of lack of "diversity"?! LOL.

[MikeNoun]

They do have a NASCAR Historic Series. I think they run 5 or 6 times a year.

http://www.hscrs.com/gallery.php

It's difficult to get modern NASCAR fans interested though, because they really don't care about the make of car, or the mechanical differences between the makes. Modern NASCAR is all about selling the driver, and their image, and it's become a bit like WWF wrestling. Fans cheer for their favorite drivers, boo Kyle Busch, buy the appropriate merchandise, and they care very little about engines, chassis, or suspensions.

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

They do have a NASCAR Historic Series. I think they run 5 or 6 times a year.

http://www.hscrs.com/gallery.php

It's difficult to get modern NASCAR fans interested though, because they really don't care about the make of car, or the mechanical differences between the makes. Modern NASCAR is all about selling the driver, and their image, and it's become a bit like WWF wrestling. Fans cheer for their favorite drivers, boo Kyle Busch, buy the appropriate merchandise, and they care very little about engines, chassis, or suspensions.

Thank You, that pretty much nailed it!

[NBF823]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

They do have a NASCAR Historic Series. I think they run 5 or 6 times a year.

http://www.hscrs.com/gallery.php

It's difficult to get modern NASCAR fans interested though, because they really don't care about the make of car, or the mechanical differences between the makes. Modern NASCAR is all about selling the driver, and their image, and it's become a bit like WWF wrestling. Fans cheer for their favorite drivers, boo Kyle Busch, buy the appropriate merchandise, and they care very little about engines, chassis, or suspensions.

I think that pretty much sums it up. I think, though many car guys watch NASCAR, and even I try to get glimpses of the technology they're using, Nascar is a fan sport, not so much of a car-guy sport. If I took all of the Nascar fans I know around me; I know that they don't have project cars, most probably don't even know how to drive a manual, and most are going to watch the Stanley cup, even though they can't skate, and watch the super bowl, even though many haven't played football since the highschool gym teacher scheduled it.

My local machinist runs a sprint car. Awesome ride, great show at the track. I love to look at that thing and swipe as many ideas as I can, Like shocks that can be run upsidedown to lower the unsprung weight. It's funny to listen to him try to get drivers for it - "When they have enough sense not to wreck it, they have enough sense not to get in it!"