[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by JSPONT

I did not see that post. Bill I was not taking a side. We had spoke about other things besides heads, and I like what you are trying to do for Pontiacs.
The more testing people do the more you learn what you need.
I did speak to Mike Leech (rip), he did break all his pistons with that power, he learned what he needed after that. If you don't have a big bank account and are pushing the envelope, chit will break until you get it figured out. My 3rd build is working great right now.

... Very true, Mike was a very determined man, and I called him and applauded his efforts and his people's efforts displayed for his EHead combo, it's that same determined mindset that gave us common ground, when some so called experts were calling him a liar he just pushed harder, no matter what he tore up, he found weak points, fixed them and moved to the next issue and so on, it was his true understanding of what high rpm engines do to parts, meaning sometimes stuff breaks, but you keep pushing, regardless of the cost, regardless of the discouraging phone calls etc ...
... It's not often, but once in awhile you find a common way of thinking from someone in this race engine game, and while I was not best friends with Mike, I thoroughly enjoyed our conversations, it's a damn shame he's gone ...

... But good post JSPont ...

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by gene simmons

Isn't Big chief still going to use them or has his plans changed?
What results has Robin Roberts had?

... Yes, and Robin's in process ...

[dragracerx2813]

I thought the idea was to make Pontiacs run better. But instead we are worried about who 's head is better! I can't wait until we start fighting over who's brand of air we put in our tires !

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Anderson Port Development

... Very true, Mike was a very determined man, and I called him and applauded his efforts and his people's efforts displayed for his EHead combo, it's that same determined mindset that gave us common ground, when some so called experts were calling him a liar he just pushed harder, no matter what he tore up, he found weak points, fixed them and moved to the next issue and so on, it was his true understanding of what high rpm engines do to parts, meaning sometimes stuff breaks, but you keep pushing, regardless of the cost, regardless of the discouraging phone calls etc ...
... It's not often, but once in awhile you find a common way of thinking from someone in this race engine game, and while I was not best friends with Mike, I thoroughly enjoyed our conversations, it's a damn shame he's gone ...

... But good post JSPont ...

Mike difinitely had determination!

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Mike difinitely had determination!

... ...

[PontiacMatt72]

Personally I see nothing wrong with someone trying to improve and forward the Pontiac community with new products. B!tch!n about someone doing so, whether it be a "purist" or someone thinkin they could do it better, does us no good and is annoying. Dragn, ahem.

PPTTF, b!tch3s

[BruceWilkie]

I too have enjoyed seeing all the heads developed for Pontiacs. No matter who brought it to us or where it fits best. If it fits a Pontiac block it's cool to me.

Non Pontiac motor in a Pontiac not cool. Nothing disappoints me my wife our relatives that are Pontiac fans more. Later corporate cars left pretty much with what gm allowed are somewhat the exception. They get really cool when fitted with traditional Pontiac power!

PONTIACPOWERTTF!

[Dragncar]

Well, had a decent weekend at the track. Saturday my T brake solenoid went out . So I had to race like 10 years ago foot braking it. Took 2nd in Pro with twice the normal car count. So that was pretty nice. Nostalgia Weekend so lots of cool old cars. Had a "409" class and a jet car too. But could go without the jet car. All it did was cost us out 3rd time run, and it was a Wally weekend. Screw the jet car, I want my runs.
Sunday made it to the 3rd round in Super Pro. But the foot braking caught up with me. Red.
I see the posts. Too much to go through rite now. I am supposed to do some "dyno challenge". Joke.
My engine is my engine. Its a big deal to me, but so what. You think I am going to spend one dime of actual money trying to prove this or that about the CV-1 head ? I live in the most isolated part of the country. No interstate, no railroads, small airport, 2 lane highways in all directions with slides about to take out every single one of them.
Spend my money, would rather give it to Marcella to make the intake even badder.
I dont have to prove my point anyway. Its already been done. No one runs them. They do not make the most NA power, NOS power, roots blower power, turbo power. The inline heads do. They are the best at cracking seats, burning plugs and just getting giant, horrific cracks.
Who runs them ? OK, Fulton. What happened 2 Norwalks ago when it was seen seething with heat, oil smoking and put back in the trailer without any attempt to check it out. Then not heard about again for a long time. Burnt up ? Who else ?? Who cares how much it makes on a dyno. The Cv can put up a number, can it stay alive at 1150 HP for very long. Tell me when has ONE.
All the big dogs have at least looked at them. They WOULD run them if they thought for one second it would make them go faster. Their head guys looked at it. And I bet it was like when a doctor has a patient lying on the gurney, lifts up the sheets, takes a look, and pulls the sheets back over his head. Cant help him.
Look, the heads have a problem. And it is apples to apples Bruce. Why do you always say that ? Its a ready made excuse. Just make more power, in any form than a E head, HP or Tiger then I will listen. But you have to convince me or anyone else with more IQ than a pigeon turd.
Now I do not know these people, heads up. Or as I like to call them, the best. Langer, Kinsler, Rex, Dwight, Snyder. Jack. Them guys run what makes the most power. They dont run CV-1s or use you Bill. Get all mad, make some more posts. Until you are able to swoon the big dogs and have them pay you real money to work on their stuff, and not offer free heads. All you can do is pop off, call for some "dyno challenge".
You did some good with a Ford head that was not F,ed up to start with . But if I myself am going to give my hard earned money it will be to a Barton, Marcella, Wilcox, Gabby or even Dave at SD. You can do my Briggs and Stratton. And not a junior dragster, its my lawn mower.
You have a canted valve head and can not beat the inlines in any configuration. Just beat them, and do it with reliability and not burning up and I will give you props. Not that you would care.
The E head has made 1000+ NA with a Victor. Try that with a CV-1 and that first pile single plane intake. You have to make some weird giant tunnel ramish looking thing. Its a joke and we all know it.
If you treated all your customers really well after they have had big problems it would be different.
Get some of the guys where the only thing that matters is going fast reliably it would be different.
Whats this "lefty E head " stuff. I am to the right of Attila the Hun.

[BruceWilkie]

Was hoping to see you win a Wally. But that's racing.
BTW had you followed Fultons Norwalk stuff a bit closer you'd have known he too had a failure of a switch in testing that led to him running at far less than 100% at Norwalk. Nothing to do with head design or builder.
Others with "failures" had issues that we're not head design related. I know alot off things said by some that had issues...there's more to story than presented publicly and yes even some infighting. No different than with other products suppliers builders and customers. Dick was a former Gabby customer. Curt Geise too...he went BBC remember. Sst hasn't been 100% forthright either and forgets I was on speaker phone one night talking with him and Bill...some honest advise wasn't taken and he's played a fence game between jim,bill calvin and rest of us on the sidelines for sometime now. BBC Pontiac now.

Pdude got screwed by Charlie Sykes, so did others and those days are over. Later his downsize to SD heads was a better match to lower lift hyd roller combo. Not big wideport territory either.
Lot has changed since those days. Some things never seem to change when we let emotion opinion and hidden agenda and misinformed folklore guide us.
And no I don't want to or like fighting with you.
Open your eyes a bit more yes..
Talk with Dick Fulton...straight up guy doesn't lie. Nor does bill . He can appear rough to some but he is straight up honest and doesn't care if you don't like what he says.(and in case you missed it NOT a Darrin Morgan student as pz folklore suggests).
I(most CV guys too) pretty much respect and like alot of the same folks and products you do. Yeah been a few agitators on our side too.
We're all entitled to opinion...we can't make opinions facts. Nor should we be spewing regurgitated miss info etc.on anyone, their product,their character.

I'll talk more later and let's address things one at a time to keep things clearer.
It's late...I got 10 hr clinical test ahead. Don't feel for me I'm making it...better yet I'm helping someone else in future who may be unfortunate enough to find themselves with Multiple Myeloma.

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Well, had a decent weekend at the track. Saturday my T brake solenoid went out . So I had to race like 10 years ago foot braking it. Took 2nd in Pro with twice the normal car count. So that was pretty nice. Nostalgia Weekend so lots of cool old cars. Had a "409" class and a jet car too. But could go without the jet car. All it did was cost us out 3rd time run, and it was a Wally weekend. Screw the jet car, I want my runs.
Sunday made it to the 3rd round in Super Pro. But the foot braking caught up with me. Red.
I see the posts. Too much to go through rite now. I am supposed to do some "dyno challenge". Joke.
My engine is my engine. Its a big deal to me, but so what. You think I am going to spend one dime of actual money trying to prove this or that about the CV-1 head ? I live in the most isolated part of the country. No interstate, no railroads, small airport, 2 lane highways in all directions with slides about to take out every single one of them.
Spend my money, would rather give it to Marcella to make the intake even badder.
I dont have to prove my point anyway. Its already been done. No one runs them. They do not make the most NA power, NOS power, roots blower power, turbo power. The inline heads do. They are the best at cracking seats, burning plugs and just getting giant, horrific cracks.
Who runs them ? OK, Fulton. What happened 2 Norwalks ago when it was seen seething with heat, oil smoking and put back in the trailer without any attempt to check it out. Then not heard about again for a long time. Burnt up ? Who else ?? Who cares how much it makes on a dyno. The Cv can put up a number, can it stay alive at 1150 HP for very long. Tell me when has ONE.
All the big dogs have at least looked at them. They WOULD run them if they thought for one second it would make them go faster. Their head guys looked at it. And I bet it was like when a doctor has a patient lying on the gurney, lifts up the sheets, takes a look, and pulls the sheets back over his head. Cant help him.
Look, the heads have a problem. And it is apples to apples Bruce. Why do you always say that ? Its a ready made excuse. Just make more power, in any form than a E head, HP or Tiger then I will listen. But you have to convince me or anyone else with more IQ than a pigeon turd.
Now I do not know these people, heads up. Or as I like to call them, the best. Langer, Kinsler, Rex, Dwight, Snyder. Jack. Them guys run what makes the most power. They dont run CV-1s or use you Bill. Get all mad, make some more posts. Until you are able to swoon the big dogs and have them pay you real money to work on their stuff, and not offer free heads. All you can do is pop off, call for some "dyno challenge".
You did some good with a Ford head that was not F,ed up to start with . But if I myself am going to give my hard earned money it will be to a Barton, Marcella, Wilcox, Gabby or even Dave at SD. You can do my Briggs and Stratton. And not a junior dragster, its my lawn mower.
You have a canted valve head and can not beat the inlines in any configuration. Just beat them, and do it with reliability and not burning up and I will give you props. Not that you would care.
The E head has made 1000+ NA with a Victor. Try that with a CV-1 and that first pile single plane intake. You have to make some weird giant tunnel ramish looking thing. Its a joke and we all know it.
If you treated all your customers really well after they have had big problems it would be different.
Get some of the guys where the only thing that matters is going fast reliably it would be different.
Whats this "lefty E head " stuff. I am to the right of Attila the Hun.

... Lmao, wow great post, care to explain exactly what customers of mine you're referring too ?? Seeing how you think you know everything .... Are you just gonna keep flapping away, or man up and accept my challenge ?? ...
... Your posts just keep getting longer lol ... I can't wait to see what's next ...

[7T2]

[QUOTE=Dragncar;5779685]
Burnt up ? Who else ?? Who cares how much it makes on a dyno. The Cv can put up a number, can it stay alive at 1150 HP for very long. Tell me when has ONE.
/QUOTE]

robin roberts went 80+ nitrous passes in the 8 teens @ 170+mph @3350 lbs without pulling the heads... that shows over 1300hp on wallace.
-won arizona fastest street car and runner'ed up more than once... went faster with his cv-1's vs eheads or tigers

YOUR information source smeared that he 'burned 3 sets of heads up'... then robin came in himself and rebutted that idiocy.
at least you admitted your reason for this smear campaign- investment protection

[Dragncar]

I will answer the OPs question. No I am not lost. Had a race at sea level, on the beach, sand to the right and left, ocean 1000 yards to the west, bay 1000 yards to the east. Drag racing paradise. 72 deg. 50% humidity, still air. 5-6 year old surface. Beat that. Mine shaft at all times. Only 5 NHRA tracks left in CA. We are lucky. 20 min drive.
I live in one of the most scenic areas of the country. All those TV commercials you all see with new cars driving through the forest with redwoods that are 15-20 (thats not even that big) feet across. Right here. Never too hot, never too cold, never sticky humidity. Its been 110-115 for weeks in Redding over the hill. They can have it. We are spoiled.

Now, just get some of the big dogs to run your stuff and port work. Do it without offering free heads as enticement. Make the top HU guys pay you real money, top porters are not cheap. When you do it full time and not on the side your entire reputation is on the line. When I see the best of the Pontiac best, class racing heads up with big balls taking their knives to gunfights and kicking A and taking names, then I will listen.
Remember this, you called me out. I got sick of Bruce trying to interject CVs or their ilk behind a post or my threads. Gave him a few small jabs. (burning plugs ect) and he got his cohorts involved and they thought I was going to get called out and what !!!!!. You Twin, were going to make me shrivel up, doubt it.
I am not going to waste a dime, you think you are worth one of my dimes ? Prove it, get a HU guy with deep pockets, then pop off.
I plan on doing a pretty big NA pump gas build with Lil Jacks/Gachs old stuff but with a better intake, 30 more ci, 1/4" more stroke and a 55mm cam. Goal is 900+ HP. Dont think 850 will be any problem. Plain wide ports get 800 HP on pump gas. RPMs will have to be 7500ish or less. No fully counter weighted billet crank and have wet sump. I will post my dyno stuff when it gets done. But the engine will either get a smaller carb or cam when I run it in my car. 10.00 is my limit. Not going to cut up a 69 GTO. It will be a street car in 10 years or less. I will either buy a done race GTO or find a old, beat up rusty 69-72 2 door Chevelle and put my rear with 4 link in. I have GTO doors and fenders, glass. All kinds of stuff to turn the chevy into a race GTO for cheap. Maybe tube frame. Welder/fabricator by trade.
Now has there been a 900+ pump gas CV engine ?
Not that I know of. There is going to be a big High Port pump gas engine coming out. Bet it sets the record at 1000+ HP.
990+ has been done with Pro Ports I think, 890+ with High Ports.
I would like to know the honest CV EGT numbers for all 8 cylinders on a big dyno run. On a single 4 carb engine. Interested in that.
Maybe some good will come out of all this. Hopefully your crowd will smell the coffee and do a redesign, with the right people involved. You could have the best race head on the market bar none.
You brought this on yourself.

[gene simmons]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I will either buy a done race GTO or find a old, beat up rusty 69-72 2 door Chevelle and put my rear with 4 link in. I have GTO doors and fenders, glass. All kinds of stuff to turn the chevy into a race GTO for cheap.

I wouldn't bother trying to change the chevelle into a gto,the panels won't match anyway,just put the Pontiac engine in it.
Pump gas at 889hp with High ports has been done.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by gene simmons

I wouldn't bother trying to change the chevelle into a gto,the panels won't match anyway,just put the Pontiac engine in it.
Pump gas at 889hp with High ports has been done.

If I put 2 full rear quarters, doors,fenders,hood . Have all the stuff. You would not catch me dead racing a Chevelle at the track. Trying to think of the body lines and where the issue would be ?
I know 889 has been done with HPs. One of the reasons I am trying to beat it with a lesser head. Wont be easy though. Maybe I will have the most pump gas power for a Edelbrock RPM head. Not a bad goal.
There is a High Port pump gas engine coming out that could crack 1000HP NA. Only 11-1 so that will not help. But he wants to be able to give it a NO2 shot if some victim to be has a eek of a chance. Doubt they will though. Real high end build.
Its gonna be real,real badddd.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

If I put 2 full rear quarters, doors,fenders,hood . Have all the stuff. You would not catch me dead racing a Chevelle at the track. Trying to think of the body lines and where the issue would be ?
I know 889 has been done with HPs. One of the reasons I am trying to beat it with a lesser head. Wont be easy though. Maybe I will have the most pump gas power for a Edelbrock RPM head. Not a bad goal.
There is a High Port pump gas engine coming out that could crack 1000HP NA. Only 11-1 so that will not help. But he wants to be able to give it a NO2 shot if some victim to be has a eek of a chance. Doubt they will though. Real high end build.
Its gonna be real,real badddd.

Why this fascination with beating 889hp if you're only going to run 10.00s?

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I will answer the OPs question. No I am not lost. Had a race at sea level, on the beach, sand to the right and left, ocean 1000 yards to the west, bay 1000 yards to the east. Drag racing paradise. 72 deg. 50% humidity, still air. 5-6 year old surface. Beat that. Mine shaft at all times. Only 5 NHRA tracks left in CA. We are lucky. 20 min drive.
I live in one of the most scenic areas of the country. All those TV commercials you all see with new cars driving through the forest with redwoods that are 15-20 (thats not even that big) feet across. Right here. Never too hot, never too cold, never sticky humidity. Its been 110-115 for weeks in Redding over the hill. They can have it. We are spoiled.

Now, just get some of the big dogs to run your stuff and port work. Do it without offering free heads as enticement. Make the top HU guys pay you real money, top porters are not cheap. When you do it full time and not on the side your entire reputation is on the line. When I see the best of the Pontiac best, class racing heads up with big balls taking their knives to gunfights and kicking A and taking names, then I will listen.
Remember this, you called me out. I got sick of Bruce trying to interject CVs or their ilk behind a post or my threads. Gave him a few small jabs. (burning plugs ect) and he got his cohorts involved and they thought I was going to get called out and what !!!!!. You Twin, were going to make me shrivel up, doubt it.
I am not going to waste a dime, you think you are worth one of my dimes ? Prove it, get a HU guy with deep pockets, then pop off.
I plan on doing a pretty big NA pump gas build with Lil Jacks/Gachs old stuff but with a better intake, 30 more ci, 1/4" more stroke and a 55mm cam. Goal is 900+ HP. Dont think 850 will be any problem. Plain wide ports get 800 HP on pump gas. RPMs will have to be 7500ish or less. No fully counter weighted billet crank and have wet sump. I will post my dyno stuff when it gets done. But the engine will either get a smaller carb or cam when I run it in my car. 10.00 is my limit. Not going to cut up a 69 GTO. It will be a street car in 10 years or less. I will either buy a done race GTO or find a old, beat up rusty 69-72 2 door Chevelle and put my rear with 4 link in. I have GTO doors and fenders, glass. All kinds of stuff to turn the chevy into a race GTO for cheap. Maybe tube frame. Welder/fabricator by trade.
Now has there been a 900+ pump gas CV engine ?
Not that I know of. There is going to be a big High Port pump gas engine coming out. Bet it sets the record at 1000+ HP.
990+ has been done with Pro Ports I think, 890+ with High Ports.
I would like to know the honest CV EGT numbers for all 8 cylinders on a big dyno run. On a single 4 carb engine. Interested in that.
Maybe some good will come out of all this. Hopefully your crowd will smell the coffee and do a redesign, with the right people involved. You could have the best race head on the market bar none.
You brought this on yourself.

... You need medical attention of some kind I'm sure, Jesus man that damn post is all over the place, a Chevelle into a GTO ??? LMAO WOW !!!! You are a really smart guy lol ....

... So as for rest of your drivel, you are at best a parrot, you have nowhere near the knowledge to participate in a conversation like your suggesting, and nice try on accusing me of starting this with you, yet you're the one running your mouth, like always ...

... You're Bible length posts show the effects of my challenge, so thanks for showing everyone watching this crap show of yours that you do not have balls or the confidence to try and back up your ridiculous claims ...

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Why this fascination with beating 889hp if you're only going to run 10.00s?

890hpTTFMF!

[Dragncar]

What "ridiculous claims" Twin ? That your canted valve head cannot beat a E head, true. That your canted valve head can not beat a High Port, true. That your canted valve head can not beat a Tiger head, true.
You need to get a top level, HU racer in your camp without getting free heads and intake. Then pop off. Pay YOU real green backs, pay for the heads, intake and your labor. (and then have them comeback for more, that will be the real trick)
It seems your ex customers think little of your challenge.
You should have told Bruce to pipe down as you can not back him up.
Those heads were supposed to be the anti-porter head. 380cfm(never were) as cast, 700-800HP head. If that was the case, why cant the valve ? Only to make less power than the inlines. What is the advantage ? All the one off stuff. The extra cost ? Dollar for dollar the inline heads are cheaper and make more power. You have a head with a ADVANTAGE and the engineering is so poor it makes less power AND has a hard time keeping plugs in it or cracking when they want to go big power. Tough to get around that one.
I do not know Tony B. But with all the top level racers that come to his shop, then come back for more he has had his hands on a set. Well, I know he has, did they get his blessing ? . Are there any BES CV-1 Pontiacs ? There are Tigers, Edelbrocks, Visners. Not sure of any HP, but why not, its a good head.
Dont worry about me, I am just a 11 flat racer looking to become a low 9 racer on pump gas. You need to worry about why the top level heads up guys are not looking you up.
This is your boys thread, a circle member. The truth would just have stayed in peoples memories rather then right back again in front of their eyes.
Until you beat 1200HP NA vs E heads or near/at 1300HP with Tigers, old fashion designs what can you say ?
Even if you do have a successful dyno run that gets there, can it not eat plugs ?
I will make my pump gas number on my own time. Just find a customer and beat it. At least that will be realistic.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Why this fascination with beating 889hp if you're only going to run 10.00s?

Just want a 900+ HP pump gas Pontiac. I can put the cam/carb back on later with car upgrade.
Did not buy all this stuff to make 800HP. Thats been done any times. I want my first "real" engine to be a great one.

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

What "ridiculous claims" Twin ? That your canted valve head cannot beat a E head, true. That your canted valve head can not beat a High Port, true. That your canted valve head can not beat a Tiger head, true.
You need to get a top level, HU racer in your camp without getting free heads and intake. Then pop off. Pay YOU real green backs, pay for the heads, intake and your labor. (and then have them comeback for more, that will be the real trick)
It seems your ex customers think little of your challenge.
You should have told Bruce to pipe down as you can not back him up.
Those heads were supposed to be the anti-porter head. 380cfm(never were) as cast, 700-800HP head. If that was the case, why cant the valve ? Only to make less power than the inlines. What is the advantage ? All the one off stuff. The extra cost ? Dollar for dollar the inline heads are cheaper and make more power. You have a head with a ADVANTAGE and the engineering is so poor it makes less power AND has a hard time keeping plugs in it or cracking when they want to go big power. Tough to get around that one.
I do not know Tony B. But with all the top level racers that come to his shop, then come back for more he has had his hands on a set. Well, I know he has, did they get his blessing ? . Are there any BES CV-1 Pontiacs ? There are Tigers, Edelbrocks, Visners. Not sure of any HP, but why not, its a good head.
Dont worry about me, I am just a 11 flat racer looking to become a low 9 racer on pump gas. You need to worry about why the top level heads up guys are not looking you up.
This is your boys thread, a circle member. The truth would just have stayed in peoples memories rather then right back again in front of their eyes.
Until you beat 1200HP NA vs E heads or near/at 1300HP with Tigers, old fashion designs what can you say ?
Even if you do have a successful dyno run that gets there, can it not eat plugs ?
I will make my pump gas number on my own time. Just find a customer and beat it. At least that will be realistic.

... like i said, you need medical help ... you make the assumption that if you think of a question and do not have the answer, well you just fill in the blank, so keep kidding yourself, the only truth here is everyone sees you have a 2 digit IQ lol ...

... way to back off your own claims, very nice ... and if you want to know Tony's opinions call and ask him, i think you might be surprised what he tells you, and yes he's done CV-1 engines before, head work too, but guess how many were for an N/A killer type combo ?? ... i guess this will be the part where you start twisting things out of context ...

... man i certainly hope you are aware the majority watching your posts are shaking their heads at you, you seriously need to wake up ... it's hilarious how you're not even a fast racer but yet you got it all figured out, and know exactly how all this should be done, and you couldn't port a set of canted valve heads if your life depended on it ... but yet you think you have the where with all to rank them ?? ... lol ok