[ponyakr]

Here's more online TH350 info, saying that the TH350C was used in some 2-wheel drive trucks & vans thru 1986.

http://gmautomatictransmissions.com/...plications.php

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9950419968967

[68azbird]

Hope he doesn't plan on towing any heavy equipment.

[p4msi1]

OK, the heads are 73 #46 with press in studs and 1.96/1.66 valves.

Next, I have 4 - 455's, 2 - 400's, 1 - 301, 3 - 350's. and maybe another 428 and 455 on the way. I am not looking for all these engines, they just "show up".

So I restored 1- 84 chevy truck and just ran the reman. 305 that was in it till it started to knock, I did not want to put a Pontiac in it at first because of all the accessories and mounting brackets...SOoooo..I bought a Blueprint 383 crate motor that for the truck. It had ample power but the cam loped too much and vacuum was too low for the power brakes and shook the truck at idle with the a/c running. No more big cams for an everyday driver!!!! Last year I was towing my Firebird home from racing and it started to slowly lose power, I figured I may not have tightened the distributor holddown screw and the timing was backing off. Made it home and the next morning fired it up and it sounded like hammers in the block. I'm figuring a broke wrist pin maybe a bearing but oil pressure is still good and no debree in the oil. No more Chevy engines in my vehicles.
I have since restored a 1984 GMC 2500 LWB truck also and it will get a pontiac motor too, after the 305 expires.
Gas mileage is a consideration as the factory tanks are about 16 gallons.

Steve

[supercar]

Back in the day, a friend of mine built a few 400 Pontiac powered late 70s Chevy Trucks. It was a pretty straight forward swap. I think I would definitely use a 400 or 455 if was going to go to all of the trouble, especially for a towing application.

[p4msi1]

Formulajones, you mistake me for a regular guy!!!!!!!!! I ain't scared of cutting frames, mounts, etc apart and "fixing them"
I restored a Trans Am and ripped out a perfectly good A/C system, smoothed the firewall and installed a Vintage A/C system for a Camaro because they did not make one for a Firebird, Try Building A/C brackets with a Procharger system too.
I welded extra tabs on 700-R4 transmissions to bolt right up to Pontiac motors, so simple almost anybody could do it.

Steve

[p4msi1]

ALSO, I have a Ford F250 for towing/working and a 28' enclosed trailer but sometimes I like to go retro and pull my Firebird open trailer with an old Truck, I think it is too cool.

[hal101]

awesome i say go for it

[maxumtorq]

Back in the 90s I had 78 chevy shortbed 2wd. Had 428 Pontiac in it. Was a blast to drive and had plenty of power. This October I'm putting 350p in my 3/4 ton 83 chevy. No ac or overdrive. My ac is 60mph with windows down. 350 chevy crate motor in it now wont fall off a cliff fast. bought 350p from a friend rebuilt for 500 bucks. Has the 47 heads which are the pressed in rocker studs but I'm going for economy and not hp. Has the 320hp cam in it but wonder if #48 or #64 would make it a little stronger? Decisions never end.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by maxumtorq

Back in the 90s I had 78 chevy shortbed 2wd. Had 428 Pontiac in it. Was a blast to drive and had plenty of power. This October I'm putting 350p in my 3/4 ton 83 chevy. No ac or overdrive. My ac is 60mph with windows down. 350 chevy crate motor in it now wont fall off a cliff fast. bought 350p from a friend rebuilt for 500 bucks. Has the 47 heads which are the pressed in rocker studs but I'm going for economy and not hp. Has the 320hp cam in it but wonder if #48 or #64 would make it a little stronger? Decisions never end.

Or some 18 heads or '70 16's.

[Cliff R]

I don't understand the dis-like for SBC truck engines?

Since I discovered that GM makes and sells a 4 bolt main roller short block with "N" crank and powered metal rods that's all I use here for what you are doing.

The block doesn't have a cam, front cover, oil pump or timing set, but does have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump rod.

Install a set of Vortec or even better 64 cc aftermarket heads, CS-274 cam or upgrade to a roller set-up, the block with go either way.

Light years better than any Pontiac 350 set-up and it will be dead solid reliable for at least 100,000 miles. I have some out there with the roller cam upgrade that have went further than that and still no issues anyplace.

One is in a 1 ton service truck used by a friend of mine to do HVAC work and it has PLENTY of power despite moving around over 10,000lbs on a daily basis. I have another in a 1991 Chevy 3/4 ton backed by an NV4500 5 speed and 3.73 gears and it is used to haul a 24' horse trailer and has to be over 12,000 loaded and it does fine. The owner says it is much stronger and more efficient than the original early Vortec 350 it replaced.....FWIW.....Cliff

[ponyakr]

"...I don't understand the dis-like for SBC truck engines?..."


For many of us us, I don't think it's so much a dislike of sbc engines, as it is a love of Pontiac engines. There have obviously been many millions of dependable sbc truck engines. I've logged many hundreds of thousands of miles with 'em, counting all the 1/2, 3/4, 1, & 2 ton trucks I've driven.

I just like the cool factor of a Pontiac powered truck !

And, for me, it has sort of a revenge factor. I still remember those Chevy powered 60's & '70's Pontiac race cars I use to see at the tracks we ran. Many of those guys liked to show me there Pontiac race car, because they knew we raced Pontiacs. Most of 'em just did not understand that we were Pure Pontiac. But, I think some of 'em knew & just tried to rub it in. I'd usually take one look in the engine bay and immediately turn around & leave. Was not interested in seeing a Chevy Powered Pontiac. In our early racing days, lots of guys would say we should switch to Chevy power. But, after we proved that we didn't need to switch, in order to win lots of races, we never heard that again !

I put a 400 & TH400 into a LWB GMC 1-ton flatbed. It had been a 350 sbc 4-speed stick. I used a rachet shifter, like we were racing at the time. I thought it was pretty cool. Later sold it to a guy with a small construction company. Saw it running up & down the area roads, hauling construction supplies, for quite a while after that.

Hey, if you can afford a new truck, with an LS type engine & computer controlled everything, or a Cummins diesel with a stick, or a Duramax/Allison, or whatever, then one of those would be my choice for a racing tow truck.

But, for short treks, within maybe 50 miles of home, a truck with a Pontiac engine, HFT cam, Q-jet, mechanical fuel pump, and 3-speed auto trans, should work just fine. IMO

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

Here's more online TH350 info, saying that the TH350C was used in some 2-wheel drive trucks & vans thru 1986.

http://gmautomatictransmissions.com/...plications.php

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9950419968967

Here's a quote from a post on the gmsquarebody.com forum.

"... It was used through and up until 86. Some 82-84's were even converted to Th350C from 700r4 by GM at request of the customer for repeated reliability problems. Customers had enough headache and GM offered and they took the offer and got rid of the weak OD."

[Formulajones]

If you guys do any decent amount of towing at all these small engines don't cut the mustard in my opinion. Mike and I were just talking about this.

I started out with a 77 pickup and a 350. Lived in Ohio, mild hills. But even towing a flat bed car trailer 3-4 times I knew it just wasn't getting it done and I knew there were better options.

After a year I bought a 79 454 1 -ton. Worlds better. My father at the time was buying new 3/4 tons with 6.0 LS engines. They did fine but when we would tow our flat beds together, any slight grade and my 454 would run away from him. Towed for 20 years with that truck, even moved the family out here to Arizona with it pulling my 28 foot enclosed trailer.

Then things changed. AZ, NM and CA is mountainous terrain where it goes from sea level to over 7,000 ft in just a few miles. Talk about some grades to climb, even these small cars today have a problem with them. My 454 did it but it was working it pretty hard. Flat beds weren't a problem but it worked really hard with the 28 foot loaded to about 10,000 lbs.

So I bought a Duramax. Now it pulls that same trailer up the mountains and passing cars while I'm doing it. No comparison.

Even if you guys tow 3-4 times a year, you're better off with a better truck and bigger engine. There are so many decent trucks to choose from with price ranges that suite anybody, I can't see wanting a 350 truck, Chevy or Pontiac, for any kind of a tow rig. I especially can't comprehend or condone going through a ton of work shoving a Pontiac 350 in an 84 pickup to make a tow rig out of it, after all the work, it's still a 350. If dead set on Pontiacs I would at least be looking at a 455 minimum so that I felt like I improved and accomplished something. But frankly there is no reason a chevy can't get the job done and do it reliably, Just as Cliff said. I've towed with them for decades.
If you want cool factor and nostalgia, a better option would be to build an old cab over and shove a Pontiac in that instead. Even an old ramp truck would be Nostalgia. Now THAT'S cool

[Sirrotica]

GMC offered a Pontiac V8 as an upgrade to the chevy engine in their trucks as well as Oldsmobile engines for 40 and up series trucks in the mid 50s.

I have repowered a 360 AMC Jeep 3/4 ton wrecker as well as 2 Wagoneers and a M715 military 5/4 ton jeep truck with Pontiac engines from 350-455. The torque from a Pontiac is superior to any SBC. Plus I just love to have a Pontiac engine in my trucks and jeeps. Jeep used a 350 Buick as an engine alternative from 69-71 and used the V6 buick in CJ5-CJ7 jeeps in the 60s, so it doesn't take any expensive adapters to put a Pontiac into a jeep, junkyard parts are all that is required, with a little welding for motor mounts and exhaust fabrication.

I used a 350 Pontiac in my wrecker for awhile before I fell into a bargain 455 that I ended up putting in it. The 350 pulled the truck loaded, around much better than the 360 AMC it replaced, better fuel mileage too.

The 350 Pontiac will probably outperform anything in the same cubic inch range as far as being close in technology. The aluminum headed late model stuff isn't in the same technology era as a 350 Pontiac. Same as comparing an LS1 to an LT1, there isn't any comparison when using different technology. Keeping it apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.

Jeep wrecker with Pontiac V8;

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

The 350 Pontiac will probably outperform anything in the same cubic inch range as far as being close in technology. The aluminum headed late model stuff isn't in the same technology era as a 350 Pontiac. Same as comparing an LS1 to an LT1, there isn't any comparison when using different technology. Keeping it apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.

Jeep wrecker with Pontiac V8;

That's right, and exactly why I mentioned it. The Pontiac 350 won't hold a candle to a 6.0 LS truck today, yet my old 79 454 would run away from it

Which went along with my point of why I wouldn't waste my time swapping in a Pontiac 350. I'd be looking at something bigger.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

If you guys do any decent amount of towing at all these small engines don't cut the mustard in my opinion. Mike and I were just talking about this.

I started out with a 77 pickup and a 350. Lived in Ohio, mild hills. But even towing a flat bed car trailer 3-4 times I knew it just wasn't getting it done and I knew there were better options.

After a year I bought a 79 454 1 -ton. Worlds better. My father at the time was buying new 3/4 tons with 6.0 LS engines. They did fine but when we would tow our flat beds together, any slight grade and my 454 would run away from him. Towed for 20 years with that truck, even moved the family out here to Arizona with it pulling my 28 foot enclosed trailer.

Then things changed. AZ, NM and CA is mountainous terrain where it goes from sea level to over 7,000 ft in just a few miles. Talk about some grades to climb, even these small cars today have a problem with them. My 454 did it but it was working it pretty hard. Flat beds weren't a problem but it worked really hard with the 28 foot loaded to about 10,000 lbs.

So I bought a Duramax. Now it pulls that same trailer up the mountains and passing cars while I'm doing it. No comparison.

Even if you guys tow 3-4 times a year, you're better off with a better truck and bigger engine. There are so many decent trucks to choose from with price ranges that suite anybody, I can't see wanting a 350 truck, Chevy or Pontiac, for any kind of a tow rig. I especially can't comprehend or condone going through a ton of work shoving a Pontiac 350 in an 84 pickup to make a tow rig out of it, after all the work, it's still a 350. If dead set on Pontiacs I would at least be looking at a 455 minimum so that I felt like I improved and accomplished something. But frankly there is no reason a chevy can't get the job done and do it reliably, Just as Cliff said. I've towed with them for decades.
If you want cool factor and nostalgia, a better option would be to build an old cab over and shove a Pontiac in that instead. Even an old ramp truck would be Nostalgia. Now THAT'S cool

Well said! Mom’s ‘80 Suburban had a 350 and a TH350C. It didn’t last one trip towing her 5,800 lbs travel trailer before the check valve in the torque converter lock the transmission in 3rd gear, burning up the third gear clutch packs. The 350 was the 175hp version. It ate the camshaft ( flippin’ GM cost cutting....inadequate hardening of the lobes) within 15,000 of her purchase. After this, I deduced that smaller, short stroke engines weren’t up to towing. When I get around to building the LS based engine for my ‘03 Silverado, it will be based on a 4” stroke crank. I think a 382 ought to work nicely.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Well said! Mom’s ‘80 Suburban had a 350 and a TH350C. It didn’t last one trip towing her 5,800 lbs travel trailer before the check valve in the torque converter lock the transmission in 3rd gear, burning up the third gear clutch packs. The 350 was the 175hp version. It ate the camshaft ( flippin’ GM cost cutting....inadequate hardening of the lobes) within 15,000 of her purchase. After this, I deduced that smaller, short stroke engines weren’t up to towing. When I get around to building the LS based engine for my ‘03 Silverado, it will be based on a 4” stroke crank. I think a 382 ought to work nicely.

Yep, that will make a very nice tow engine with a broad power band, and they have excellent cylinder heads. I fooled with the larger bore 6.0's for quite a while. A 4" crank 402/408 combo makes fantastic power for it's size.

[p4msi1]

OK, y'all have talked me into selling my old trucks and Pontiac motors and buying a newer model Chevy truck. I appreciate the level headed advise and wise experience. The free advise and endless knowledge is overwhelming, I am truly humbled,

Blessings

Steve

[Formulajones]

See, isn't this forum great?? We all come together to help guide people in the right direction

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by p4msi1

OK, y'all have talked me into selling my old trucks and Pontiac motors and buying a newer model Chevy truck. I appreciate the level headed advise and wise experience. The free advise and endless knowledge is overwhelming, I am truly humbled,

Blessings

Steve

I for one hope this is a joke. I was ready for the 350+HP, torque monster from hell engine build. That was "REAL LIFE" pump gas friendly and would pull off 15 mpg or better while totin' a load. An engine that didn't need 5 or 6 gears to get moving and run down the road. And wouldn't have to down shift three times when you hit a hill.

Had done been looking for a clear cylinder for smoke flow testing to see what kind of head intake port mods could be done to get port velocity off the scale while using an Offy dual-port intake. A real axle twisting 455 that didn't need a big stall converter to get it moving. And sit and purr like a kitten at idle.
Clay