[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

With the economy the way it is right now, and shortage of quality labor you're probably going to see labor unions making a comeback. Corporations for so many years have had more applicants than they've had jobs, the shoe is now on the other foot. Qualified job candidates are going to have more clout and choice where they go for their profession. If I were in the market for a job I'd want a contract of sorts to assure I had some job security down the road.

I would very much like to see that.

The problem is most people are afraid to take a stand for themselves. In 19 out of 20 cases companies may preach loyalty but they have none. You have to be willing to look out for number one.

I’m not necessarily looking for a new job. But my resume is ALWAYS out there. I turn down job offers regularly but I’m always willing to talk about opportunity. I am also willing to walk away, which most people aren’t. That threat has to be there on your end. If the company feels you aren’t going to do anything but mutter under your breath about conditions it’s all over. You have to be willing to walk.

It’s easier for me to say because I don’t have a family. But still. Have an emergency savings plan so you can leave. Or even if you don’t out and out quit, be willing to look for a new job and quit once you have found it. Don’t settle.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

I would very much like to see that.

The problem is most people are afraid to take a stand for themselves. In 19 out of 20 cases companies may preach loyalty but they have none. You have to be willing to look out for number one.

I’m not necessarily looking for a new job. But my resume is ALWAYS out there. I turn down job offers regularly but I’m always willing to talk about opportunity. I am also willing to walk away, which most people aren’t. That threat has to be there on your end. If the company feels you aren’t going to do anything but mutter under your breath about conditions it’s all over. You have to be willing to walk.

It’s easier for me to say because I don’t have a family. But still. Have an emergency savings plan so you can leave. Or even if you don’t out and out quit, be willing to look for a new job and quit once you have found it. Don’t settle.

Nearly 20 years ago I had 3 companies that wanted to hire me as a service tech. I worked them and got things like 2 weeks of vacation on my start date, adding a third week at 1 year anniversary. Moving allowances were one thing that was necessary because I was moving 500 miles to take these jobs. It can be done if you have some negotiating skills, and willing to walk away as you've said. It's similar to buying a car, make up your mind before you negotiate where you want to end up.

My wife never tries to negotiate anything when she is interviewing for a job, which pisses me off because she's an RN and good people in her field are not common. She has a skill that is in high demand by employers.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Nearly 20 years ago I had 3 companies that wanted to hire me as a service tech. I worked them and got things like 2 weeks of vacation on my start date, adding a third week at 1 year anniversary. Moving allowances were one thing that was necessary because I was moving 500 miles to take these jobs. It can be done if you have some negotiating skills, and willing to walk away as you've said. It's similar to buying a car, make up your mind before you negotiate where you want to end up.

My wife never tries to negotiate anything when she is interviewing for a job, which pisses me off because she's an RN and good people in her field are not common. She has a skill that is in high demand by employers.

I wish I could find it now but I read an article a few years ago. The article was showing that companies were going to "No Negotiation Hiring" because negotiations were sexist. The basis of the idea being that men were more likely to negotiate for better starting pay/benefits than women. Therefore you end up with a wage differential because men negotiated a better starting point.

I remember reading that and thinking "What idiot thinks its a good idea to take away the only power you as an employee have against the big corporate machine. " But of course the companies were thrilled to be able to put that policy in place.

Im all for equal pay for equal work and all, but you get that by standing up for yourself. Not by expecting big corporate America to be benevolent.

[Formula496]

Here's a little help in dealing with millenials.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz0o9clVQu8

I go through this at work all the time. Our trade (concrete cutting) is not an easy one or for everybody so I get the coming in and leaving after a week but getting anybody young in has been terrible. Helpers start out being paid pretty well at our company and like anything else the more you are willing to learn and more equipment you can operate the further up the ladder you can go. Most of these kids come in not knowing anything construction related at all. Most don't even know which way a nut or bolt comes apart. All they want to do all day is play on there phones and bitch about not making more money. After they work here for a couple of months they think they know everything and want there own truck and they think should be making top $$ Young people have no concept of working hard and moving up in the world. They just want to come in and make top dollar with no experience or desire to show any interest in being taught anything so they can succeed.

We had a kid we hired who was still in high school at the time to clean up around the shop, wash equipment, get things ready for the operators to load the next day. He worked ok at first but once he graduated and was off from school we wanted him to come in a 9am instead of 3pm and go from part time to full time. Consistently showed up late or not at all. Always on his phone either fighting with his girlfriend or his brothers for at least an hour. Then he would walk around and b.s with everybody coming back from there jobs. So he spent most of the time doing nothing then hurriedly doing everything half ass before he went home. One day I had enough and told him to get his sh*t together or I'm going to fire him. He got all defensive, started yelling and cursing at me and couldn't grasp the concept of why I was going to fire him. He said to me this isn't a "real job"
I lost it and asked him if he got a real paycheck at the end of the week. He now works at a restaurant making less money.

There have been exceptions though. We had another kid who started out the same way the other one did and pretty much the same story but after a few years and with a couple of us in his ear he started to show some willingness to learn and start operating equipment on his own. He made a turn around and has greatly improved. Our trade has guys in there mid to late 40's all the way up to mid 50's who can't do this kind of work forever and finding young people to carry the torch has been really hard.

[BOB VIDAN]

Unfortunately or not, my level of appreciation for this group ain't too high. I kinda think their day goes as follows: wake up around 10 AM when mom opens the basement door and yells she's leaving for her nursing shift job. And now PO'd by having been wakened so early, bitch about not having a place of their own. Later in the evening they'll complain to mom about the above and having to pay $12 a month for rent, the mom knowing they don't have a job. They're justification goes something like this:

Nobody will hire me because of the way I look and smell.

You know I have to have the newest gen cell phone, I must spend $3K a year on the newest and best.

You know how crammed my day is: leave the house, get the skate board wheels greased, swing by the tattoo shop to be in on the latest and see if I need any additional piercings, swing by the park to see if any good dope deals are going down and if not, swing by the pot shop for some dinner.

Life's a bitch.

[unruhjonny]

all jokes aside, this was at the top of my suggestion list from the prior youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As8XkJNaHbs

[poncho-mike]

I started writing what could be considered a rant, but I just decided to delete it all.

Cell phones are an annoyance. I don't carry one, I refuse. My wife has one that we keep for travel, and I'll take it with me and turn it on if I need to call somebody. Otherwise, it stays turned off.

Employers have no loyalty to their employees any more, but want our loyalty. Our bosses try to make us feel good so we get the work done, but it's all a ruse. All upper management cares about is meeting numbers and controlling costs. I will do a good job because I'd feel bad otherwise, but my days of putting in long hours of unpaid overtime are over. It's management's job to manage costs and allocate resources, so when I give them a schedule and they don't like it, they are free to find somebody who can do it quicker. If longer hours are needed, then I'll take comp time.

If all goes as planned, I can kiss the corporate world goodbye in roughly 1.5 years. I am looking forward to it.

This topic of this thread was originally millenials. I think there is hope for them if they can break the hold their cell phones and social media has over them. It is no wonder US productivity has stalled in the last few years. There are just too many distractions to focus.

[Diego]

Of which generation are the founders of Facebook?

PayPal and Tesla?

SnapChat?

Any of 'em Boomers?

[poncho-mike]

Tesla is the only company that actually makes a product.

Paypal is a service and snapchat is a toy.

In the last twenty years or so, the markets are increasingly placing higher values on companies that provide entertainment services over products that enable production of goods. As a result, productivity has been flat or declining. Yeah, I know this is the information age, but I don't give a rat's a** over what Trump or Kim Kardashian or anybody else for that matter feels the need to tweet out to the world. Some of these tools have business applications, but the net is they probably reduce productivity more than they improve it.

I'm getting ornery in my old age. If I'm talking to somebody at work and they switch over to their phone, I turn around and go back to my office or walk away. They get me message eventually.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by poncho-mike

Tesla is the only company that actually makes a product.

And.....?

Paypal is a service

And.....?

and snapchat is a toy.

Nope, it is a marketing tool.

So perhaps what you need is a paradigm shift because the economy of the world has changed. What I think you're seeking out to define is either a product or service, but the new economy is also about ideas.

Yeah, I know this is the information age, but I don't give a rat's a** over what Trump or Kim Kardashian or anybody else for that matter feels the need to tweet out to the world.

Then ignore the noise. No one says you have to be into what others are telling you is important.

This has always been like that.

I'm getting ornery in my old age. If I'm talking to somebody at work and they switch over to their phone, I turn around and go back to my office or walk away. They get me message eventually.

By text?

Remember the Lee Iacocca quote? "Lead, follow, or get out of the way." It's up to you whether you want to dig in your heels....at your own peril. Just understand at some point it'll get annoying to the rest of us (not that I think you're annoying, mind you).

[1965gp]

That Simon Sinek interview was actually pretty interesting.

I agree that the world is evolving and you either evolve with it or get left behind.

I do not believe we are in an extreme situation, but here is a thought: if we have misled our youth (millennial generation) by giving them the wrong expectations, do we see potential for another country or another social group to pass up the American Millennial in terms of leadership and prosperity?

I don’t think we are that bad off, there are a lot of really smart people entering the work force. I do think that entry level workers are going to have to adjust their expectations and employers are going to have to realize this generation will not stick around if they are not happy and appreciated.

[Stuart]

I'm 62 years old, and my parent's generation was saying the same stuff about us when we were kids. For that matter, same thing has probably been going on since cave man times, and somehow the world keeps turning.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Diego

Nope, it is a marketing tool.

...

wait, isn't this the application that pedophiles were known to use?

[Diego]

Read up on Snapchat.

[unruhjonny]

no thanks.

just another time suck.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by BOB VIDAN

Unfortunately or not, my level of appreciation for this group ain't too high....
Life's a bitch.

Heard elsewhere on this forum... "why aren't young people more interested in Pontiacs?"

[Diego]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

just another time suck.

The time suck will be, every few months, the rest of us seeing you or someone else complain about a generation that's not your own.

Simply your choice, and I don't mind it, but there's no glory being a Luddite.

[unruhjonny]

nice try.

any way you try to veil it, name calling is still name calling.

maybe in your haste to digress to name calling, you missed that i actually made a positive contribution.
this started out as a fun/funny thread;
too bad it can't stay that way...

just because i'm not interested in a tool that pervs use doesn't mean i'm against progress;
i choose to be more involved in the real world than online.

[Diego]

I tried nothing.

But I think you understand my point.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by Diego

I tried nothing.

But I think you understand my point.

What is your point? That an economy based on non-essential, short lifespan intangible services is somehow sustainable in the long run? You think the world revolves around an app like snapchat?

General Motors has been making tangible products, and as a result money, for many many decades. There is every reason to believe they will continue to do so 10, 20, many years from now. There is little reason to believe that snapshat will. It is that key difference that you obviously do not recognize. The world economy revolves around the exchange of goods and services that there is consistent, persistent demand for. This new internet/social media economy is extremely volatile and fickle, while the demand for tangible goods and services is as strong as it has ever been. Snapchat isn't producing cars, clothes, cell phones, TVs, alcohol, food, or any of the other things that human beings consume on a daily basis. Banking on an intangible, non-essential service as the future of the economy is foolish. Even just sitting at home using snapchat on your phone requires several tangible good and service industries to make that happen. If all new youngans get into coding apps like snapchat, who will build the phones, the computers, the intertubes, the houses and Starbucks you surf your phones at, etc etc..?

Snapchat probably won't be around in ten years. You can bank on that if you like. I'm sure not going to.