[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

Already on it It's getting a '68 manifold, '68 Q-Jet and valley pan. I do have a set of 1.65 rockers I considered as a band aid for more lift, but then I remembered that I'd have to clearance the heads.

You're going to have a heat crossover mismatch with any intake 71 and earlier on 72 and later heads, just a heads up if you hadn't thought about the mismatch.


Exhaust Crossover Port Matchings
With Head And Manifold Use Gasket
1965-71 1965-71 1965-71
1965-71 1972-79 1972-79
1972-79 1972-79 1972-79
1972-79 1965-71 1965-71**

** Use thin sheet stainless steel as a block off plate.

[steve25]

If you try the 1.65 rockers on one cylinder you would likely find that they clear ok and it’s an easy thing to check with using 3 layers of kitchen foil for a clearance check.

The more important consideration is that the factory 5/16” top thread rocker studs don’t like that added leverage loading of the 1.65s and can snap then off right where that 5/16” section starts on the stud, and especially so if polylocks are used to set the valve adjustment because they really stretch that top stud portion when the polylocks are tightened right.

Ask me how I know this !

Good that you swapped out that balancer since even though the elastermer looks ok all that oil has taken its toll.

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

....Wondering if the yellow markings on the gasket indicate it's a factory gasket? ...

Did they still use nylon on the timing gears in 74? If so, that might answer your question.

I'm also curious about the choke. A 68 QJ would have a divorced choke, correct? Had they changed this in 74?

Do you have a 4-bbl throttle cable and bracket? Someone I know named Mike might have been ignorant about that...


Mike

[Verdoro 68]

We made a lot of progress today. The new timing chain is way better. I really appreciate you all calling that one out. Poor Cole was scrubbing and degreasing the timing cover for hours and hours this afternoon. I got the more satisfying job of painting it later on. I degreased and scrubbed the front of the block and driver's side valve cover and gave them a fresh coat of paint. I'll work my way around to the rest of the engine.

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

You're going to have a heat crossover mismatch with any intake 71 and earlier on 72 and later heads, just a heads up if you hadn't thought about the mismatch.


Exhaust Crossover Port Matchings
With Head And Manifold Use Gasket
1965-71 1965-71 1965-71
1965-71 1972-79 1972-79
1972-79 1972-79 1972-79
1972-79 1965-71 1965-71**

** Use thin sheet stainless steel as a block off plate.

I knew about the mismatch and figured we'd cross that bridge when we got there. We're almost there. Thanks for the chart.

Originally Posted by steve25

If you try the 1.65 rockers on one cylinder you would likely find that they clear ok and it’s an easy thing to check with using 3 layers of kitchen foil for a clearance check.

The more important consideration is that the factory 5/16” top thread rocker studs don’t like that added leverage loading of the 1.65s and can snap then off right where that 5/16” section starts on the stud, and especially so if polylocks are used to set the valve adjustment because they really stretch that top stud portion when the polylocks are tightened right.

Ask me how I know this !

Good that you swapped out that balancer since even though the elastermer looks ok all that oil has taken its toll.

I figured as much with the balancer. It's been soaking for years. Had a new one on the shelf that I didn't use with the GTO so that worked out.

I probably won't use the 1.65s, but it sounds like if I do I should convert over to BBC studs. Come to think of it, I have a set of BBC studs in the same box as the 1.65 rockers in storage. That's how the slippery slope begins...

Originally Posted by Shiny

Did they still use nylon on the timing gears in 74? If so, that might answer your question.

I'm also curious about the choke. A 68 QJ would have a divorced choke, correct? Had they changed this in 74?

Do you have a 4-bbl throttle cable and bracket? Someone I know named Mike might have been ignorant about that...


Mike

As far as I read, they stopped doing nylon timing gears by '74.

A '74 intake and carb would have a hot air choke. The '68 intake and carb have the divorced type. Fortunately the intake and carb match.

About the throttle brackets...I have a '74 4bbl throttle bracket but I discovered I bought the wrong bracket for the TH350 kickdown and throttle thinking a '68 Firebird bracket would work. The '68 intake doesn't have the provision for a '74 bracket. Curious if anyone knows what I should be looking for.

'74 2bbl intake and bracketry...





'68 intake is missing the extra bolt hole that the '74 has...



Starting to look like a big boy Pontiac with the 4bbl intake set on top.

[Formulajones]

Your son has the right idea, just drive the thing. That's what they are meant for. In the grand scheme of things 100,000 miles isn't a ton of mileage and I personally wouldn't worry about a couple cylinders that pump a little less. Just bring along some spark plugs in case it fouls one or two. Looks like it might be using a little oil, again not a deal breaker. These old cars are all we drive, everywhere. I find them extremely dependable with very little that can go wrong. As long as you go over the car, and I'm sure you can do that successfully, there really isn't much to worry about. A 1200 mile jaunt is short. You can put that mileage on the car in a few weeks of driving and never leave town, and you trust it to do that right? Think of it that way.

Besides, there are plenty of us car guys throughout your route that could possibly help if the slim chance of a problem does occur. I'm in Prescott, you'll be going right by on your route. There are a few of us in Phoenix as well 100 miles south of me.

We also plan to go depending on my schedule. My issue with it last year is it really required pre-registering, which I rarely ever do for an event, and it filled up months before the event since they put a 400 car cap on the event. So I can't just decide if I can make it 2-3 weeks before unfortunately, making it a hit or miss deal if I'm going or not. I explained that to David last time I talked to him, not sure if any changes were made this year. 400 might just be the limit the track can tolerate and it just is what it is.

[Verdoro 68]

I do find it funny that I'm hand wringing so much over 1800 miles. He drove the car 4,000 miles over the last year with minimal issues. It looks like we'll be caravanning down with some of his friends so that will be good if something goes wrong.

I'm stumped on finding a throttle cable/kickdown mount that will work with the clip style cables on an earlier intake. I thought I could use something off a '70//71-ish LeMans with a TH350 but can't find an example of how those were set up.

I need this style for the throttle:


On a bracket like this with a clip in for the kick down:


I'd change the throttle cable to an earlier style, but the attachment at the pedal is different in '74. People do this swap all the time. There's got to be an easier solution I'm missing.

[67Lemons]

Also, something else to consider, you may need a longer throttle cable as well, I did when I converted my ‘67 from a two barrel. I ended up using an adapter from Edelbrock but many people mentioned using a piece of flat stock or even a hacksaw blade to get the additional .5 or so inch of length.

[Formulas]

Throttle brackets are one thing about Pontiacs that can be frustrating if you just want one to bolt on easy... sometimes I have cut parts off of one added to another or fabricated a base and just used the cable hold section..

One pic is a fab from bench stock for a hurricane intake the other is 1968 intake and bracket.. but I have never done the TH-350 dance

[67Lemons]

I almost forgot, pretty sure that you can use a factory carb bracket from a mid 80’s Oldsmobile. The bracket is designed for a Quadrajet with a 2004R, I think I read that the turbo 350 kickdown cable will work instead of the TV cable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32594889774...xYCssOSIhRi-2A

[Verdoro 68]

I bought a 4bbl throttle cable from Ames. I even snagged a factory ‘’74 4bbl air cleaner. I’m hoping I can make this look as factory as possible. Shouldn’t be too hard.

What I could do is buy both brackets above and combine them to make what I need. The Olds option might be one to consider as well.

[Sirrotica]

Usually I end up cutting apart 2 brackets, and welding the pieces I need to make one good one that will do what I need it to. Nothing new when making brackets to convert 2 bbl systems to a 4 bbl system since 64 A bodys started using cable linkage.

I rarely have to worry about kick down cables and TV linkage because most everything I've had myself, or customer work had T400 transmissions in them. A few here and there had T 350s, and Edelbrock used to have brackets that saved time fabricating them.

One of the big joys of hot rodding and twisting wrenches for a living is making parts work that were never designed to work together.......... are we having fun yet?.............

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

I do find it funny that I'm hand wringing so much over 1800 miles. He drove the car 4,000 miles over the last year with minimal issues. It looks like we'll be caravanning down with some of his friends so that will be good if something goes wrong.

I'm stumped on finding a throttle cable/kickdown mount that will work with the clip style cables on an earlier intake. I thought I could use something off a '70//71-ish LeMans with a TH350 but can't find an example of how those were set up.

I need this style for the throttle:


On a bracket like this with a clip in for the kick down:


I'd change the throttle cable to an earlier style, but the attachment at the pedal is different in '74. People do this swap all the time. There's got to be an easier solution I'm missing.

If you're caravaning down with others that's even better. Not just for the piece of mind but that is always so much more fun with a group. And you don't get too many opportunities in life to create these father son memories so just drive it and enjoy it while you can.

[73_Lemans_350]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

I do find it funny that I'm hand wringing so much over 1800 miles. He drove the car 4,000 miles over the last year with minimal issues. It looks like we'll be caravanning down with some of his friends so that will be good if something goes wrong.

I'm stumped on finding a throttle cable/kickdown mount that will work with the clip style cables on an earlier intake. I thought I could use something off a '70//71-ish LeMans with a TH350 but can't find an example of how those were set up.

I need this style for the throttle:


On a bracket like this with a clip in for the kick down:


I'd change the throttle cable to an earlier style, but the attachment at the pedal is different in '74. People do this swap all the time. There's got to be an easier solution I'm missing.

Not sure if any of this will answer any questions you have, but here's a thread from when I swapped out a 2 barrel setup for a Quadrajet on my 73 Lemans:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=877721

My kickdown cable doesn't run through a the throttle bracket, and I was able to reuse the bracket from the 2 barrel setup. I did have to get a new universal throttle cable, which I found on the Jeg's website.

[Shiny]

I agree this is a Pontiac nuisance. It's ironic you can swap heads and intake manifolds across many years yet need to hire a design team to swap throttle cables and brackets.

My 70 also routes the kickdown without involving the throttle bracket, so this may not help. I am totally unfamiliar with your kickdown setup.

When I went from 2bbl to 4bbl I installed a QJ with a divorced choke on a 71 intake, so that's similar to your 68.

I first kept the 2bbl bracket and throttle cable. I stupidly got creative on the manifold with a grinder to make the throttle cable line up with the carb linkage and lengthened the cable with a piece of flattened tubing to make it all function.

In a rare moment of clarity, I then bought a repro 4bbl bracket and a used 4bbl cable.

This now works well except for needing a big spacer after my grinder festival.

Here's where it ended up. Maybe it will help, but I suspect your kickdown complication is the bigger issue.

Mike

[Verdoro 68]

Thanks for the suggestions and pics. Looking through the Ames catalog, they offer a bracket like the Olds piece 67Lemons mentioned above for Q-Jet and Edelbrock carbs. I'm going to give that try. If that doesn't work, I think the next approach will be to combine the two brackets I listed above.

[Verdoro 68]

I got the front cover, balancer and valley pan reinstalled. Now we're into the "might as well" part of the project, but it's nothing that's going to get us in trouble on the road. Degreased and scrubbed the frame, cleaned and painted the driver's side head and went to work replacing the motor mounts. I've had a set of mounts in the trunk since last year and intended to get to them in at the school shop but never did.

With the front of the engine apart, access to them is as good as it's going to get with the engine in the car. The old ones came out in pieces! I still have a little bit of work to get the engine settled in place so I can get the bolts in, but the new mounts should raise the engine quite a bit. The engine was sitting so low, we couldn't get the belts off without removing the bottom pulley because the frame interfered.

[P@blo]

Lokar has a nice bracket. The factory brackets are fugly and I am glad I upgraded to Lokar cables and bracket setups.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-srk-4000

[mgarblik]

Been following along. Like the way your fixing what needs attention and leaving other stuff alone. BTW, I have seen much worse timing sets still running on Pontiac engines. No doubt it was overdue for replacement though. The way you are blending in the new paint and old, looks natural in the pics. The engine mounts were a good catch and important replacement. Have a safe trip.

[steve25]

Replacing those mounts was a good move.

When they get that beat to let the engine sit that low they also force the head pipes of the exh system to try and support the motor.

This can make for cracked exh manifolds and unending exh leaks on the flange of the head pipe that only has two bolts or studs to try and keep it sealed.

[Verdoro 68]

This car was leaking oil and trans fluid for years. When we first got the car I called it pig pen because there was a cloud of burning oil around it. The leaks likely saved the chassis and body from rust by coating everything with gunk, but killed any rubber pieces and made it a greasy mess to work on. I knew the mounts were bad, but I didn't expect them to be petrified and fall apart. The rubber fuel hoses were toast, too, but we replaced when we first got the car. Just basic issues you'll find on any old car I suppose. Funny you mention the head pipes because we did have some challenges getting the flanges to seal against the manifold.