[north]

“If you have a chance to list each Zone - with it's highest Pattern Number currently on file ,,,,
John can check his files for any higher Pattern Numbers or any Zone you don't have a sample for.
And John and I can keep our eyes open for further cars that develop.”

My big post yesterday lists every pattern Judge DON by zone.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I'll try to drill into that posting and see if I can dissect it all out.
Was too cluster-stuffed at first glances.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

01 - 29, 54, 57, 64, 65
02 - 46, 51, 70, 74, 76, 119
03 - 19, 34, 35 40, 49, 55, 55, 67, 78
04 - 45, 46, 51 52, 59
05 -
06 - 44, 46
07 - 27, 40, 52
08 - 18, 41, 58
09 - 21, 24, 27, 41, 42 54, 56, 66
10 - 32, 59, 73, 77
11 -
12 - 21, 49, 59, 61, 64
13 - 39, 41, 45
14 - 22, 33
15 - 22, 31
16 - 43, 62
17 - 20, 29, 42, 43, 56, 58
18 - 29, 35, 47, 51, 61, 71, 81
19 - 17, 27
20 - 17, 31, 45, 47
21 - 33, 35, 55, 72
22 - 51
23 - 17, 45, 71, 86
24 - 17, 19, 51, 62, 80, 89, 103, 106, 118, 119
25 - 26, 32, 45, 61, 62, 63
27 - 34, 37
28 -
29 -17, 36, 58, 61, 71


1150 samples by subtracting 16 from the highest numbers from each Zone.
And adding those totals.


As per PY member North :
I took the highest number from each zone and deducted 16 from each and that gives me about 1,150.
If I give each zone with none or only one or two examples a minimum of 30 it bumps the number to about 1,250.
If you add another ten percent for missing higher DON’s in each zone you end up at 1,375.
Then add 10% for Canadian market cars you are 1,550.
Roughly matching my pattern to total judge invoices calculations.

1550 approx estimate currently .

[north]

Exactly! Thanks!

[johnta1]

Here's a page I made:


Pattern Judge #'s

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Small detail on yours John
Atlanta car - Brushy Mtn is in Hickory NC , not SC.

There is another car that sold new in Burlington NC , at GAA auction in past year.
Think it was Pattern also. Will check for it.

I don't remember the two 01B cars you have listed.
At one point there was only one 1B - that went to Canada - not exact Pattern.

Don't remember any 02C Patterns before - and you have three listed.
Mine is 02C Baltimore Non-Pattern from Mt.Airy NC

There is an 01D Fremont Non-Pattern that went to a dealer near Hollywood.
But I forgot dealer name.
Had Redlines , Ext Tips , Non-Posi axle

[johnta1]

I thought it was kind of strange I have only 4 Arlington pattern cars.
Most people must be hiding them or they were used up.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

That GAA website is a little tough to drill into its history.
Did find a different example that neither of you list though.

PHS for Car # 85 from Zone 23 , Fremont

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Going to start a new thread later in The Judge section.
Maybe this weekend.
Something like - Calling all 69 Pattern Cars

And do a combined list of the "Zone / Car numbers" from both of your lists.
See if can round up some more cars/numbers

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

There is another car that sold new in Burlington NC , at GAA auction in past year.
Think it was Pattern also. Will check for it.

Found it , not a Pattern Car.
Later built ++ options - non posi
For your other records.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Another Non - Pattern from GAA
02C Baltimore

[johnta1]

Thanks for the PHS' BVZ!

I updated the web page.

I bolded the 2 pattern numbers I have in the Baltimore plant.
I wonder if the second 'batch' is determinable from the Zone ID, for instance in the Baltimore Plant:
ZBA551370 : pattern #41
ZBB515562 : pattern #41

The last letter may be useful?
All the Z's (Zone) are either 'A' or 'B'

I don't think the pattern #'s (DON) for all plants, each plant had their own pattern #'s (DON)
(why there may be possibly many same pattern #'s (DON) total like 5 17's)

[johnta1]

Then after I posted above, the A Plant with 2 17's with the 'B' in the ID's



Don't really know how they determined the patter #/ DON's
(unless they went more than twice around)

[johnta1]

And I was looking at the wrong thing on the '17' in last post.


Too many numbers.


Anyway, Back to the 'A' and 'B' being 2 runs of numbers?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The build plant isn't a determination in the Pattern Count.
It's all about the selling Zone Number - aka Zone 16 Charlotte NC etc...
Each Zone had an individual exclusive count. No repeats or interlopers within a Zone.

3rd digit (ZBA - ZBB) is the payment form of the selling dealer.
A - GMAC financing
B - pre -approved Banking institution where a dealer has secured his own type of financing
C - Cash or Check
aka - how the dealer would pay PMD for the car

I posted 3 new PHS , only 1 was a Pattern. Just for you and North's overall file contents on the other 2.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Streamlining all of North's examples into individual Zones shows us there are no repeats within an individual Zone.
His Zone Count theory from a few years ago was indeed Correct.

Tracking them by individual Zone is the way to track the Pattern Cars.

Tracking by plant is just a way to get a handle on the VIN ranges.
If you had a sample with no docs or trim tag data - might could determine if VIN fits in Pattern range,
Problem is we have at least 2 interlopers , an 01B and an 01D , so far.

The 02C cars sort of throw a new wrench in the tail end.
Years ago , 02B were the latest documentable Patterns we could find.
At that time , all the 02C examples we found were Non-Pattern.
All confirmed data is good data .

Just would like to see - all in one place - a documented 02C car with its invoice and trim tag displayed.
For my own well being . lol

[johnta1]

Maybe I'm starting to get it.

Link to the tables, newer one on top of page.

69 Pattern Judges

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Yes that's getting to it.
Probably better if the Zone Number and the Order Number are side by side in columns.
It's a stretch to go all the way across the board.

It is cool that you have them done both ways by Plant and by Zone Order Number

[johnta1]

Re-arranged the columns in that web page. See if it helps.
(also took couple lines out)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

That looks really good John.
I should be able to do a basic consolidation of yours and North's lists soon.
Will see if any of your Zones currently have a higher order number than North's also.