[Va68goat]

Napa gold oil filter.

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[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

promptcritical,

I think Paul would agree that I have handled this as well or better than most people so go stir the pot on another thread. Paul and I are cool and we'll get through this without your opinion! As I said before, I still wouldn't hesitate to go through Paul again!

Sorry I hurt your feelings. That wasn’t my intention.

[mgarblik]

That's the brand and style I use on the vast majority of the cars I service and race. This includes the nitro funny car, (NAPA/WIX racing filters) IMO, the filter isn't a problem, a junk distributor shedding metal at a faster rate than the filter can trap all the debris, is.

[Formulajones]

Can't necessarily blame an oil filter if the bypass isn't blocked. If the bypass is left open, which in some cases shops prefer to do this if they are uncertain the owner will frequently change the oil, then there is quite a bit of oil that doesn't pass through the filter in various running conditions.

Nothing wrong with the Napa Gold filters, same as Wix. Good quality filter.

[Va68goat]

promptcritical,
Hahaha..I'm not going down that path.

mgarblik,
This filter was suggested by a lot of guys here. That's why I went with it. I've tried googling problems with this distributor and didn't see much of the same problem. Of course I'm pretty new to cars and I certainly don't have the experience or knowledge to even have a thought on this. I know I'm learning a lot though!

Formulajones,
I don't know about the bypass. I know I've changed the oil 3 times with less than 200 miles.

[Sirrotica]

NAPA gold is a 20 micron filter and is 50% efficient at a single pass, so 1 out of 2, 20 micron particles are caught with first pass. Typical of a full flow filter and blocking the bypass valve doesn't make the media any more efficient. It's still only going to catch 1 out of 2, 20 micron particles at the first pass. The other particle is going to make more circuits in the oil system. Anything under 20 microns will circulate indefinitely until the oil is drained.

The majority of engine wear is caused by 5-10 micron particles which are free to roam with any full flow filters, and are only removed most times when oil is changed. Just keeping the facts straight here.

A by pass filter removes 100% particulate to 2 microns the first pass, I really have no idea if it would have saved the wear parts in this instance, but it at least would have a fighting chance as 100% of the oil runs through it every 5 minutes, even with the bushing deteriorating it would still only circulate in the engine for 5 minutes, not indefinitely.

After close to 50 years in the automotive field I have never seen this problem arise with a distributor bushing failing. Paul and Jeff in my estimation have gone over and above to stand behind their work, even though it was no fault of their own. This is how a business is judged when the job has a failure and they stand behind it, even though any profit they made initially was eaten up, they still hung in there until the problem was solved. This is exactly the formula that separates a good business from a great business. Business ethics like this are tough to find today and refreshing to see someone still has the foresight to keep their reputation intact because they intend to be around for many years.

Glad the problem has been solved, and the owner is going to be able to put some miles on his car this year. Good job to all who got their hands dirty trying to solve this elusive noise, I know you did it for the brotherhood of Pontiac owners out there.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

promptcritical,
Hahaha..I'm not going down that path.

mgarblik,
This filter was suggested by a lot of guys here. That's why I went with it. I've tried googling problems with this distributor and didn't see much of the same problem. Of course I'm pretty new to cars and I certainly don't have the experience or knowledge to even have a thought on this. I know I'm learning a lot though!

Formulajones,
I don't know about the bypass. I know I've changed the oil 3 times with less than 200 miles.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. I apologized plain and simple for the way my post came across. Good luck with your deal...you’ll be up and running soon.

[Dragncar]

I run the Nappa Gold filter for a early 60s big car in my 69 GTO. Its longer so it has more capacity and filter area. Fits with my Hooker round port headers.
That said, its a fine filter for what it is. I know of no one who has run a 455 as long as I have and as hard as I have and never hurt a thing.
But, if you want problems plug the by pass. foolish. You are asking a filter to do more than it can. It would take more than 2 filters set up to get it all under every engine condition. Pontiac engineers were not stupid.
Seen too many guys have problems with plugged by pass with just a standard sized filter screwed on. Don't care what they say the filter flows. Know of guys who blew those big long tall deck BBC filters off too.
Most of us drag race and oil never really gets dirty before its changed.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I run the Nappa Gold filter for a early 60s big car in my 69 GTO. Its longer so it has more capacity and filter area. Fits with my Hooker round port headers.
That said, its a fine filter for what it is. I know of no one who has run a 455 as long as I have and as hard as I have and never hurt a thing.
But, if you want problems plug the by pass. foolish. You are asking a filter to do more than it can. It would take more than 2 filters set up to get it all under every engine condition. Pontiac engineers were not stupid.
Seen too many guys have problems with plugged by pass with just a standard sized filter screwed on. Don't care what they say the filter flows. Know of guys who blew those big long tall deck BBC filters off too.
Most of us drag race and oil never really gets dirty before its changed.

Agree, I did not mean to recommend blocking the bypass in my earlier post. I would much rather have dirty oil, or even oil with a little bushing material in it lubricating my bearings than NO OIL in the bearings. I don't think it is wise to block the bypass in any engine that will see street use.

[gtofreek]

What's funny is the new MSD distributors come with a warning tag attached to them that says to block the oil filter bypass. I've been doing it for for over 20 years on engines I feel the customer will change the oil and filter on regularly. I have never had a bearing issue or any other issue from doing so. I do see a lot of scratched up bearings in engines running the bypass though.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

NAPA gold is a 20 micron filter and is 50% efficient at a single pass, so 1 out of 2, 20 micron particles are caught with first pass. Typical of a full flow filter and blocking the bypass valve doesn't make the media any more efficient. It's still only going to catch 1 out of 2, 20 micron particles at the first pass. The other particle is going to make more circuits in the oil system. Anything under 20 microns will circulate indefinitely until the oil is drained.

The majority of engine wear is caused by 5-10 micron particles which are free to roam with any full flow filters, and are only removed most times when oil is changed. Just keeping the facts straight here.

A by pass filter removes 100% particulate to 2 microns the first pass, I really have no idea if it would have saved the wear parts in this instance, but it at least would have a fighting chance as 100% of the oil runs through it every 5 minutes, even with the bushing deteriorating it would still only circulate in the engine for 5 minutes, not indefinitely.

After close to 50 years in the automotive field I have never seen this problem arise with a distributor bushing failing. Paul and Jeff in my estimation have gone over and above to stand behind their work, even though it was no fault of their own. This is how a business is judged when the job has a failure and they stand behind it, even though any profit they made initially was eaten up, they still hung in there until the problem was solved. This is exactly the formula that separates a good business from a great business. Business ethics like this are tough to find today and refreshing to see someone still has the foresight to keep their reputation intact because they intend to be around for many years.

Glad the problem has been solved, and the owner is going to be able to put some miles on his car this year. Good job to all who got their hands dirty trying to solve this elusive noise, I know you did it for the brotherhood of Pontiac owners out there.

X2 big time on standing behind the work. I hope the OP realizes that 90% of the engine shops operating would have washed their hands completely as soon as the engine was delivered. Especially when a defective component having nothing to do with the engine build was the root cause. Most would have said, "your problem is between MSD and you", end of story. Paul and crew deserve real credit for "really wanting to find the root cause" and then correct it. Concerning blocking the oil filter bypass, this is something I didn't realize was common on street Pontiacs or any other street engines for that matter. Something I just haven't done in that application.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

What's funny is the new MSD distributors come with a warning tag attached to them that says to block the oil filter bypass. I've been doing it for for over 20 years on engines I feel the customer will change the oil and filter on regularly. I have never had a bearing issue or any other issue from doing so. I do see a lot of scratched up bearings in engines running the bypass though.

Interesting. BTW, Does Joe's replacement MSD distributor have a good bushing in it?

[Formulajones]

The point of my post was missed. I'm not surprised that would turn into a "to do or not to do" LOL

The point was that we can't blame a filter for catching everything if the bypass is open. There is oil that isn't being filtered AT ALL. Plain and simple. Doesn't matter how good the filter is with an open bypass.

[TedRamAirII]

The oil filter already has a By Pass built in. So blocking the one in the oil filter housing, is OK. The oil will get where it needs to be.

[Va68goat]

mgarblik,

I think Paul would agree that I have been appreciative and understanding. I've never posted one negative thing on this forum. It's been a long, bumpy road to get to this point with a lot of up and downs. We just need to get through this so I can enjoy this motor and Paul and Jeff can get that motor out of the shop so they don't have to deal with it anymore.

[mgarblik]

I have no reason to doubt anything you say concerning your last post. I have been following this from the beginning and look forward to a happy end to the saga. Good luck with your car and engine. Summer is coming. Get some enjoyment out of it.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

What's funny is the new MSD distributors come with a warning tag attached to them that says to block the oil filter bypass. I've been doing it for for over 20 years on engines I feel the customer will change the oil and filter on regularly. I have never had a bearing issue or any other issue from doing so. I do see a lot of scratched up bearings in engines running the bypass though.

My engine the oil got changed every 4 races. But it was with Dello 400 oil I got free so it was no big deal.
This new engine is filled halfway up the pump holes so it will need synthetic. I plan on running Amsoil 20-50 in it.
Right now I am thinking about plugging my by pass and going with that 150$ K&P screen type that is cleanable. The flow rate is huge and they make them with or without a bypass built it.
I would think that if you plugged your by pass and ran the K&P with its own by pass it should not make it to that mode very often.
Thats the plan right now.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

The oil filter already has a By Pass built in. So blocking the one in the oil filter housing, is OK. The oil will get where it needs to be.

To my knowledge all spin on filters do not have their own by pass. Even if they do do you want to put the life of your engine in a 8$ spin on filter and hope their by pass works ?
Very easily could have oil starvation or media blown through with the wrong filter.

[Sirrotica]

Full flow oil filters speced for a Pontiac Stratostreak V8 do not have internal by pass valves. The one in the oil filter elbow is the only safeguard in the oil system. Blocking that safeguard allows no bypass whatsoever. If the filter cannot handle full flow at high RPM is will do one of three things, leak externally at the sealing O ring, blow the canister out rupturing it, or collapse the filter media internally, possibly ripping holes in it. Unless you cut open each filter you'll never know if it collapsed the media rupturing it, rendering the filter in by pass mode 100% of the time. If the system overpressures the oil filter it will find the weakest link.

Smokey Yunick calculated that a SBC would need 4, 12 inch long full flow filters at full RPM to filter all the oil pumped through the engine. Anyone here with a blocked by pass have anywhere near that filter capacity?

There are much safer ways to filter the oil to a higher standard than any full flow filter or combination of multiple full flow filters do, usually on PY this all falls on deaf ears, as I expect it will currently....

[Formulajones]

Yeah we know. I don't think it falls on deaf ears, at least not some of us. But as much as I like what a by pass filter does and how well they work, (trust me, I'm an Amsoil user and they really push those filtration systems) most of us can't or won't put them on these classic cars. They either can't be fitted neatly and/or hidden on some cars where you don't want to look at something like that on a nicely restored car.
So we have to resort to frequent changes and try to keep things as clean as possible.