[threefidee]

Mark has asked me to share some new information with everyone. He just called me on the way back from a private test and tune session at Stanton, MI. With a new crossflow muffler installed and some valve spring issues taken care of he had this to say.

3,100 ft air (pee poor) his '71 455 HO T/A just ran a personal best of 12.58 @111.02mph!
Last year the car ran a 12.62 @ 111.20 in 100 ft air !!!!

What does this mean? Paul's 74 SD last year in 100 ft air ran 13.30's. Using the NHRA correction factor, Mark's car today ran a corrected pass of 12.127 @ 113.9 !!!

Looks like the SD cars have some work to do

And, for anyone that is wondering .......NO Cheating !!!!!!

GAME ON !!!

Just the messenger

JHOdy

[threefidee]

Chuck, just got off the phone with Mark as your post slipped in ahead of mine as I am a slow typer. He wanted me to tell you that he was not insinuating that you were cheating as he had only Paul Aragona and his build on his mind as we love our RI racers

Jody

[johnta1]

That's going to be the problem with the SD, being only a Firebird engine.
Pontiac did some dyno tests on the SD's and the restrictive exhaust was killing the HP.
They made a lot of HP at the engine but the cross-flow muffler hurt it.

With a free flowing exhaust (headers), it would kill the HO's.
Or if you can use a different set-up than the cross-flow muffler, you'll be ahead of the game.

[Mark Weymouth]

Chuck I am home now and wanted to answer you directly. I love your car clone or not. A) it is drop dead sweet, B) It may not be a real SD but it is a real 455 4spd car which is equally cool in my book.

Second I really kind of rate you and I out of the running. And thats how I have really been thinking of it. We both run 4spds and they simply will not be competitive with the HO's and SD's that have auto's. We both have 4spd cars that lay down some excellent times but these auto guys will have us covered once they get serious.

Dan has miles to go on the T-37 spec wise and if he gets serious we will be left for dead by the lighter T with an auto. Plus he does not have to turn a power steering pump like me.

I think ultimately Pual's SD is in the same position. If he gets it all togher and drives the wheels off it like you then he has us covered. We run similar times and he makes more power than I do. I am expecting him to cover my T/A.

Unless you or I are willing to dump an auto in I think we will both suffer at their hands.

The first thing Scott said tonight was "if you put an auto in it, it would really be fast." I hate to admit it but he is right. Our desire to rip gears is holding us back. But I think I am having more fun than if I had an auto.

Plus god know's I do not want to call someone a cheater as it has happened to me recently and it is no fun!!!

Jody was doing a bit of editorialising with the Cheater comment. He meant it as a joke because of the flack I was taking recently at the hands of the Chevy contingent.

I hope you and I hang in there ET wise with our 4spds but I think our days are numbered.

See you in Stanton in just a few short weeks. Drive safe and keep the SD faith going.

Sorry for the missunderstanding. Anyone who has read HPP knows how well your SD goes. Also I had no idea one way or the other on the rocker arms. Glad to hear you changed them though (and went faster) as it makes your car even more amazing.

Mark

[chuck lombardi]

Mark,

Thank you for the explanation.
See you in Stanton.
Give Paul my regards.

Chuck

[2manyT/A'S]

12.12! WOW,that's some PRETTY SERIOUS testing & tuning!

Now if I'm understanding your post Jody, Paul needs to pick up WELL over a second with the recently dynoed SD motor (to keep up with MarK)
Does his newly found additional HP (25) & TQ (34) equal a full second in the "low" teens?

Also curious about 2 other things:
What brand of crossflow did Mark just install & is it a 2 1/2" unit?

Personally,I've never seen (or heard) af any SD's with factory installed 3.90's.
I thought that 3:42's were the steepest that was offered (and 3:08's were MANDATORY with A/C) or is that NOT a criteria?

(I'll have to dig out my old HPP's & re-read the tech specs)

Keep that GREAT 455 Round Port info COMING!

[threefidee]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

12.12! WOW,that's some PRETTY SERIOUS testing & tuning!

Now if I'm understanding your post Jody, Paul needs to pick up WELL over a second with the recently dynoed SD motor (to keep up with MarK)
Does his newly found additional HP (25) & TQ (34) equal a full second in the "low" teens?

Also curious about 2 other things:
What brand of crossflow did Mark just install & is it a 2 1/2" unit?

Personally,I've never seen (or heard) af any SD's with factory installed 3.90's.
I thought that 3:42's were the steepest that was offered (and 3:08's were MANDATORY with A/C) or is that NOT a criteria?

(I'll have to dig out my old HPP's & re-read the tech specs)

Keep that GREAT 455 Round Port info COMING!

Actually the correction factor to sealevel was figured at 3,000 ft. (100 ft lower than the weather station indicated yesterday and Paul's car was running at 100 ft above last year) but yes, over a second difference to make up.

He had a PYPES before and installed the newest version of the PYPES crossflow and yes it is a 2 1/2 unit. (speaking of that I have the old unit installed on my wife's '68 Firebird 350 HO which can be installed 2 ways, more noise less flow or more flow less noise and looking underneath the car I saw where my muffler shop wrote "top" on the side which is on the bottom as I asked a few years ago to be installed in more flow less noise so wondering if there is an easy way to tell as it will not be easy to get apart to check and the car has always sounded pretty loud in my opinion). I may need to pick up one of these new mufflers as well

Not sure on this so anyone knowing this rule please chime in but I think you can run whatever gear you want for the pure stock races. Ok, I just went to their site and checked. Here is the rule and quote from their site... "Rear Axles: The rear axle must be of the same manufacturer as the car. Any gear ratio is allowed."

Paul is a great guy and I can not wait to see what his SD will run in a couple weeks. I hope the air is great that weekend and everyone runs their best times ever.

Jody

[300 H&H]

Hey threefidee,

Since it seems that there are some Chevy guys whining about "cheating" with the Chevy contingent, (If they don't win they whine) Will I be allowed to come to the event in Stanton in a Corvette, and still be able to "hang out" with the Pontiac guys? LOL, would not want to ruffle the Pontiacs guys feathers here, as I already know how the Chevy guys are going to feel....Best regards Kirk

[threefidee]

Kirk, it is ok. I will be driving a FORD Bring the Vette and hang out as I think most of us here enjoy all types of cars and they are fun to watch race with a special love for Pontiacs. The bad part is when I posted about Mark running the HO yesterday I was posting for quite some time ( I must have been in that post for 30 minutes or so), talking with Mark on the way back and figuring correction factors and Chuck posted something in front of me and it looked like I was calling him a cheater with that comment so I just wanted to clear the air.

Jody

[Mark Weymouth]

To many T/A's it is not as simple as Paul's new motor just making more power by x amount than his old one. Paul's old motor was suffering last year and was not making its full compliment of ponies. His trans never would cooperate. His converter was the factory stocker and in poor shape. Add all these items up and it is well beyond his actual power differences that will make up his improvement. Throw in an updated exhaust and he has a full quiver of upgrades.

The hard thing for Pual will be getting everything sorted in such a short time until the race. The motor goes in next week.

I hope it all comes together perfectly and he turns spectacular times but I think we better give him a couple rounds to learn how to drive it and get everything pulled in together.

Wish Paul luck as he still has to get into the 12's, then catch Chuck then go further. No small feat.

Mark

[threefidee]

Here a couple Pics of his '74 SD we are awaiting to see run in a couple weeks. Hey Mark, do you think Dennis was in RA 4 driving mode when he was driving Paul's car last year trying to see how it would run north of 6,000 rpm? That could make a SD a little unhappy..

[71gto400]

Kirk, it is ok. I will be driving a FORD Bring the Vette and hang out as I think most of us here enjoy all types of cars and they are fun to watch race with a special love for Pontiacs. The bad part is when I posted about Mark running the HO yesterday I was posting for quite some time ( I must have been in that post for 30 minutes or so), talking with Mark on the way back and figuring correction factors and Chuck posted something in front of me and it looked like I was calling him a cheater with that comment so I just wanted to clear the air.]

Jody

Ford, , bad Jody!

[1qikta]

Originally Posted by threefidee

Here a couple Pics of his '74 SD we are awaiting to see run in a couple weeks. Hey Mark, do you think Dennis was in RA 4 driving mode when he was driving Paul's car last year trying to see how it would run north of 6,000 rpm? That could make a SD a little unhappy..

Paul is a cool guy..we had some fun too..

[2manyT/A'S]

GREAT SHOT of 2 74 T/A's!

It looks like you had a pretty serious hook/launch going on there,Jay?

[Mark Weymouth]

Jay nice photo. It looks like Paul was asleep at the tree. His car hangs the nose high also. Those RTS cars are loose at the launch. They sure do work.

Jody it was Dan driving and he was seriously side tracked by setting up for the race. Plus Paul's trans shifted when it wanted not when you wanted.

Rocker arms were falling off the thing. Unfortunately we did not have any spare poly locks with us. You could readjust the rockers and in two passes they were falling off half the cylinders again. I started hitting the nuts with a hammer on the ground to crimp them more. Kind of almost worked... Well not really it sounded like a diesel by the time it was loaded up for home.

Poly's on the new motor this time.

Only waiting on a new drive shaft to show up. His old one was looking rather beat and unsafe.

Jay how is the motor coming?

Mark

[1qikta]

Originally Posted by Mark Weymouth

Jay nice photo. It looks like Paul was asleep at the tree. His car hangs the nose high also. Those RTS cars are loose at the launch. They sure do work.

Jay how is the motor coming?

Mark

Mark,

I would love to say I am picking up the motor tomorrow..but its not happening. The crankshaft from moldex (up your way) was suppose to be done in 5 mos and I believed them...and planned accordingly. But, it showed up 7 1/2 mos later. I had hoped to make Norwalk but at this point VMP will be a stretch at best. Anyhow,Mr Pbody now has all the pieces of the puzzle.My hope is to engine dyno it here before I put it in the car..if there is time.My chassis dyno guy wants to compare the numbers with his dynojet.

As far as the rest, I now have the Th-400 and the new converter. Also finishing up on my new lighter rear end.

You know how it goes...

[300 H&H]

This is the week!

Two more days and we travel to Stanton for the pure stock drags....any local guys have weather info for the weekend? Since it is only in the low 40's here, might be nice to know about Michigan weather. threefidee, are you up this morning? Best regards, Kirk

[superdutybob]

Not good!

Showers and thunderstorms at 30-40% for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday according to weather.com for Stanton, MI.

[threefidee]

I am up That was not the weather report I was hoping from you superdutybob

Jody

[superdutybob]

Jody

I'm not a real weatherman but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I just report what I read. I too was hoping for something better. Maybe by the weekend the forecast will change. It is Michigan afterall.