[marks73ta]

I should just drop the whole set up back into the car for a real measurement. If I weren't so darn lazy, heh. Mark L

[marks73ta]

I went ahead and placed the whole motor, trans, and shifter all into the car, finished cutting out the floor and getting evrything bolted in. I found the shift lever to be OK where it fell. But the T handle was just wide enough to be touching my leg when I would be driving relaxed. So I pulled all again and moved the mount over about an inch, inch and a half towards the passenger side. This by itself will be fine but I might go to a ball shift knob if I can find a nice 3 speed knob. Doing that will make it perfect. I have to look at one of the shifter balls with the side button/switch on it. If it can be used with the pull trigger for the shifter V-gate then it'll work great for a line lock. If the side button falls in a bad place and interfers with the operation of the V-Gate trigger, then I'll have to do a seperated button.
I sold the '59 block that I was using for a mock up block. So I can't play with making a starter adaptor until I get my '60 block engine back from Paul in Tucson. I had the opportunity to do a little mocking up before the '59 block left so I have an idea what I'm going to do. But before I go any farther I need to have my actual block/engine and the crank I'm using etc, then I can get all the final positioning done.
I sent both of my carbs into CSU for the final work. The original carb I already had built to blow thru by CSU was converted to E-85. The second had to be converted to blow thru and E-85. They are already done and on their way back. Bruce Wilkie sold me a full Accell 300+ ignition system including the 375 additional unit that plugs into the 300 and gives me boost retard and several other features. Everything plus the matching coil to get me running. Thank you Bruce. Exactly what I needed. That's it for now. Lots to do but things getting done too. Mark L

[60man]

Winter is here so I guess that's good working weather in the SW. LOL
Getting closer Mark. Carry on.

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by 60man

Winter is here so I guess that's good working weather in the SW. LOL
....

Yes, we can actually pick up tools left briefly out in the sun, now.

Jim

[60man]

Originally Posted by twooldgoats

Yes, we can actually pick up tools left briefly out in the sun, now.

Jim

Does this mean the 60 project is back under way to..

[marks73ta]

I finally downloaded a couple of Iphone pics of my short block from a couple of weeks ago. It is supposed to be ready end of next week.







Thought I'd throw them on.

Mark L

[BruceWilkie]

Hey Mark... when you get to fittin the starter...stand the block on some fat wood blocks nose down. It really makes it easier. Mount adapter index starter position. Mount bell housing and index to adapter. My adapter plate is doweled to 59 block dowels(.498" holes). your plate will get the new style bell dowels.(.621" holes) Surprisingly my drill bits actually measured .498 and .623 respectively. Tight enough! Seems the very slight shift between marking and setup on the drill press made for a very tight fit anyway and I ended up very nice with about .0045 runout without offset dowels...I need to get some from RobbMc and see if I can get to perfect but this is fine for preliminary stuff.

Also standard "modern" rebuilt starters from autozone come with a gauge... just a piece of rod you put between ring gear(outer edge of tooth) and starter pinion shaft. That establishes pinion to ring gear clearance real easy! You can final check when starter is bolted up by engaging pinion. clearance between teeth needs to be .020"-.030". Not all ring gears are perfect so check 4 "sides" mine averages .025" and both starter and ring gear have a slight amount of wear. Too tight can hang the gear and too loose can hurt the gears. Being low compression you can get away with being a scratch looser but try to stay in that .020"-.030" range. Pinion depth needs checking too... at least an 1/8" disengaged and not at the "bottom" of the pinion when starter is engaged.

[marks73ta]

Good info Bruce. Thanks. Mark L

[BruceWilkie]

btw... that 1/8" clearance mentioned in last sentence is pinion to flywheel with starter disengaged(minimum)

Actual starter pilot plate needs to be a tight fit(helps reduce shear loads on bolts) but hole in adapter plate can be a bit larger and helps you line things up before you tack weld the pilot plate to the adapter plate. I didnt drill starter bolt holes till after I set starter position. I just clamped it on and used the hammer to tap the plate to where it needed to be. Once thats set and tacked you can easily mark where the starter bolts need to be.

Pilot hole is 3.25"...I cut mine a bit smaller then put a small rotary file(high speed carbide) in a router and opened it up till it barely slipped over starter pilot. That keeps starter spacing consistant should you swap starters at some point.

Oh... my starter pilot plate is 5/16" but 3/8" might work ok too. 7/16 grade 8 bolts

I used a stud in the 58 starter and a countersunk "flat top"allen head to clear flywheel. Surprisingly it doesnt slip when tightening the bolt.(didnt need to hold my ball end allen after it was finger tight. I dont think that allen is needed if you use the 61-63 pattern. If you use the RobbMc starters in either offset(buick nailhead) or straight across(eldo/toronado) pattern it shouldnt be needed either.

Once everything is done you can fully weld pilot plate to adapter but go easy so you dont warp the adapter... I had to spend some time with a press to unwarp mine... the bead was going so well I didnt want to stop lol

In case you are wondering....early flywheels have a larger ring gear diameter than 64 up. 14and a few1/8ths iirc vs 13.98"

Dont try to convert an early std delco starter to heavy duty by swapping noses. The newer style delco uses a longer pinion and the pinion stop is further on the shaft preventing old style nose from seating. There might be delco pieces that would work but it would be easier to just get the RobbMc or an IMI for a 61-63.

[Engine-Ear]

Dang, Bruce, that is solid info! Thanks for posting the details.

[marks73ta]

I'm going to adapt a vertical starter pattern, same as the late starters. I'm using a length of 1 inch angle iron. It is cut the length of the starter base but it is mounted with the angle up. The angle iron will set on top of the starter base where it touches the block. Because I'm using two 1/8 inch plates to take up the difference between the depth of the early bell housing face and the late bell housing face, the angle iron will turn up and behind the first plate and be even with the second plate. The second plate will be cut out around the angle iron. That way, I'll locate the starter where it needs to be, the angle iron will be on top of the starter and will get bolted to the block at the same location that late blocks are located. The boss is of course too short to locate the second bolt so the angle iron will extend past the block. The inside starter bolt can be drilled and tapped in the block, a second location will be drilled and tapped about half way between the starter bolt holes where there is much more meat up in the block casting, and a countersunk bolt inserted there with the head flush with the surface of the angle iron/starter surface. The outside bolt hole of course is now out in the open air so once the starter is located exactly I'll use a nut on top of the starter bolt (thru the angle iron) and weld the nut to the angle iron.
With the angle iron turned up and behind the block and the first adaptor plate, the face of the angle iron depth is now exactly the same as the face of the second adaptor plate once it is cut to clearance the angle iron. This combined surface is the same depth as a late block so any late bell housing or automatic can bolt to it and the starter will be in place. I also plan to make a front starter bracket to help keep the starter from moving in and out from the block. I started to do all this on the '59 block and the 389 crank but I stopped thinking that if anything is different with the dimensions between the '59 block and 389 crank versus the '60 block and the aftermarket crank, I better wait untill I have all the actually players in place. I hope I described all of that well enough to see what I'm doing. Mark L

[marks73ta]

Well, got a call from Paul down in Tuscon saying my motor should be Friday (today). Told him it will be Monday before I can get it. He had to finish assembling the heads and put them on. A little later I get an e-mail from him again. He started putting in the rocker studs and the first one he tried to torque down stripped out the threads. Now he has to drill and tap and Heli-Coil all of the stud holes for insurance. So many things with the heads that I did not expect. Damn.

HEY!!! Knock on the door. UPS Man, Santas Helper. LOL. I just had twins---LOL.







Like Scareface said in that movie----"LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO MY LITTLE FRIENDS"--HEH. I'm back to happy again.

Twin 750 Blow Thru E-85 power mongers.

Markus O'Powerous!!!!!

[krisr]

Awesome looking intake - where did you get it if you dont mind me asking. If you choose not to use it let me know and i'll happily take it off your hands and convert it to EFI to put onto my engine

[Jack Gifford]

Are those high-port or basic D-port KRE heads?

[marks73ta]

Krisr. That is a Wenzler tunnel ram, one of his earlier designs. It had been polished sometime in the past. I bought it with out a top so I had to buy one from Wenzler, so it still needs to be polished. But those T Rams are still available thru them. He also sells a GutsRam tunnel ram that has bigger ports for the newer wide port etc heads. this is a link to his sight.

http://www.wenzlerengineering.com/PONTIAC.HTM

Jack. I'm using KRE regular D-Port aluminum heads but with a CNC 325 cfm porting job. Paul at Koerner down in Tuscon flowed them and they flow 319 cfm at my .601 net lift. I think they were 324 at .700 lift. The heads were originally equiped with 1.66 exhaust but due to a rather shaky valve seat installing practice, I had to replace them, so I went to 1.77 exhaust and picked up a nice increase in exhaust flow. Although in a turbo hot side assembly, I don't believe the bigger valve will make much difference because of the inherent exhaust side back pressure conditons. But since I was in there anyway, the upgrade is a good thing. My single turbo 455 with 230 cfm 6X heads made 1065 HP at 15 psi. These heads with the increased flow should more than make up for the loss in stroke from 4.210 down to the 3.75 of this 406, and the cam is very specificly built for a turbo, with a later exhaust valve opening to put a little kick into the exhaust hot side for better spool up. The E-85, the intercooling effect of the blow thru carbs, and the twin intercoolers should allow an easy 15 psi under everyday street use. With a lot of room to go up in boost pressure for the strip. Mark L

[gtofreek]

Plus, with the higher exhaust flow in the same size port, the exhaust velocity will go up and the push on the turbo will be much higher so the turbo lag should be much less.

[marks73ta]

Good point Paul. Mark L

[taff2]

Mark, did the carbs come from CSU with the vent extensions?

[marks73ta]

Yes, I was asked about the carb hat and it's orientation so they could make and position the tubes into the air stream. You see them the way they are because the cabs will be sideways mounted using the Shotgun scoop. So I had to tell them which way the carbs will mount. I determined that they will mount with the throttle linkage on both carbs facing the front, hence the tubes facing towards the linkage. I cut out a 1/4th inch aluminum plate to make the bottom plate of the scoop. I found some 1 inch aluminum spacers to mount that plate on over the carbs and they will get welded on once I determine the exact location the scoop will sit.
This is the carbs with the aluminum spacers.



This is the plate I made just sitting in the bottom of the scoop.



This is a look inside of the scoop sitting on the carbs with the tubes facing forward.



And the scoop on top of the carbs. Since I do not have the holes located and cut in the 1/4 inch plate yet I used the original stamped sheet carb spacers under the scoop just for mock up. You can see the new spacers laying on the plate in front of the assembly.



I have to talk to Dennis at CSU to see if I can shorten the tubes since the front carb tubes are close to the inside front of the scoop itself. Which could cause a different pressure affect seen by the front carb versus the rear carb.

Mark L

[taff2]

That setup looks really good. The pressure differential the carbs may see is one reason I made an ali box with the charge air entry tubes going into the box at 90 degrees.