[marks73ta]

Adam thanks for all the nice comments. It is much appreciated. I noticed that you have been gathering info on the '59 block etc. I would usually reply but I've been too busy in the garage and Bruce is as good or better at pointing out the ups and downs of the block. So you are in good hands with him. I will say that due to the extensive work I had done to the '60 block in my car, I could probably have had an aftermarket block for the same money, or very close to it. I'm a very big advocate of the early blocks but at a really extensive prep cost, the aftermarket has much more potential. Bigger bores, BOP and Chevy rear mounting patterns, starter bolt up location, etc, all things the '59/'60 block lacks. But if you're going to be using the '59 block closer to original, then it is the way to go for stock block strength. Plus turbos seem to make their power "softer" , easier on parts. Good luck on your build and I'm looking forward to seeing how you do. By the way. You were asking about going to 4 bolt mains on your thread. The 2 bolt main caps on those blocks are bigger and beefier than the later blocks, and Pontiacs with the locating dowels are very strong main cap blocks. I made over 1000 HP on my turbo'd 455 block with studded 2 bolt stock cap block. That '59 2 bolt will be much stronger than the 455 with the bigger mains. It can take a lot of HP in my oppinion. I did all that to mine because I want to push it a lot farther, at least to 1500 or more, so I wanted all the ducks in a row to take it. Oh, as far as th egarage goes. I've learned from many, many years of laying in dirt and metal grindings to keep the garage clean. Just being able to find your tools in the rubble actually saves time in the long run. Being retired allows the time crunch to not be a factor, unless it is self imposed, LOL.
I did get your pics and replied Troy. You can make it work, just gotta do it (Nike???) heh. Love that GP. I'm actually adapting rear drag shocks made for mid 60's A bodies, 13.5 compressed, 23.5 extended, and around 18 at setting height. The "upside down" shock mounts are the normal mounts turned up side down. I still have to turn them back around and probably redrill them for the 5/8ths mounting bolts once I have the shocks in my grubby little hands. Then I can position the mounts exactly where they need to be.
Funny. I was outside with my bench grinder with a wire wheel attached cleaning off all the old rust from the rear springs that I installed yesterday. I had cleand and painted the original rear springs but they just were not stiff enough for me. I had this set of station wagon springs I got from Steve Barcak at Pontiac Heaven but they needed wire brushing. I had gotten all the way through both springs and just about to finish when the bench grinder started to act funny, and big snap and pop, sparks flew out of it, and smoke came out of the housing. Then it just stopped. I guess I over worked it. I've had that thing since the early '80's and it had been my Father in Laws for years before that. So I guess it's time to lay it to rest. Mark L

[marks73ta]

Hi Jim. Yeah right. I've decided I'm never going to start it. I mean. It will always make 2000 HP and run 6's in the quarter,-----if I never start it right??? LOL. I just may have it running and drivable by then. No where near streetable yet but drive on and off the trailer and to the car show spot. I know you built your whole car from scratch. It must have been a hell of a good feeling to actually move it under its own power for the first time? I've built motors etc but this is the first all car build for me. Even with just building a motor there were things that went wrong that held up the start up etc. I can't imagine what will get me when I do this thing. Looking forward seeing you and your wife too Jim. You two are good people. MArk L

[60man]

Originally Posted by 60man

Yep,yep....sitting on all fours at last...a good feeling I'm sure! Congrats Mark..been a long time coming. I agree with Bruce....sits great.
Notice you have "upside down" shock mount plates...Didn't know they existed until I got the Prix. What lenght shocks did you go with...I went with 12" on my 60 conversion but wished I had went with 14" now....for racing. Seems most of the "full size" guys are using 14" shocks...FWIW. might help shocks live longer?? But I am certainly no expert...

Keep on truckin'...

I'll get some pics of front motor plate project soon..

Scratch the shock comments...Duh....not coil-overs..

[marks73ta]

That's what I thought you might be talkng about. 14 inches seemed kind of short for regular shocks. But I thought, thought I, Troy would not mislead me in my time of need, would he?? No not Troy!!! LOL. OK enough theatrics. Mark L

[marks73ta]

Got my brake lines all run and everything put together today. All that's left is drilling and installing all the frame/line clamps to tie them off. This is the rear lines. Again they have to be clamped.



Front shocks and mounts.





This is a rear brake lockout that I'm using for a temporary parking brake. It's a valve inline that you press while holding the brakes on and it locks them tight. Then when you push the brakes again they unlock. It's only for times that I need the car to stay in place while the engine is running and in nuetral.



Now it's put in the frame clamps and then move on to installing the clutch pedal/master assembly and running the hydraulic throwout lines to the master. I want to reinforce the floor where the clutch pedal assembly sits. To keep the floor from flexing.

Mark L

[Engine-Ear]

Mark, regarding the last pic, it reminds me: I was thinking of rigging up a ball valve in series with the rear brake line, between the rear brakes and the M/C that I could use to keep the rear wheels free when I brake during a burnout (I would close the valve to block brake fluid flow to the rear wheels and then open it after the burnout was complete).

Does the gizmo you show there do that?

[mechanickeith]

Matt,,Do a search on Summit or Jegs for "line Lock" Marks is a manual line lock & there are electric controlled also. For burnouts, you want the line lock in the front brake system. That way you can "lock" the front brakes on during the burn out & disengage afterwards.

[marks73ta]

Hey Matt, good to see your name pop up. Keith is right. I just installed an electric line lock on my front brake lines. A line lock is a momentary solenoid valve that blocks the applied pressure to the front wheels from releasing. Then you do your burnout with the rear brakes free, the fronts holding you in place. The valve near my seat is a mechanical block that will also hold the appplied pressure, but to the rear wheels. I'll use it for a temporary parking brake since I'm using front disc brakes on the rear that have no parking brake unit. But I say temporary since once you apply the mechanical valve, in time it will release as the pressure on the rear brakes seeps back thru the valve. I'll only use it to hold the car if I'm doing any mechanicals that requre the car to run and set in neutral. Other wise it will always be parked in gear.



The front electric line lock is the gold solenoid to the drivers side of the master cylinder. It is plumbed after the master but before the proportioning valve. This way it holds the pressure in the one line after the master but before it splits in the prop valve to each front caliper.

MArk L

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by mechanickeith

Matt,,Do a search on Summit or Jegs for "line Lock" Marks is a manual line lock & there are electric controlled also. For burnouts, you want the line lock in the front brake system. That way you can "lock" the front brakes on during the burn out & disengage afterwards.

OK, that is the inverse of what I was thinking of doing, but it will be better because of a third pedal on the floor...my side-stepping days are questionably over.


"A line lock is a momentary solenoid valve that blocks the applied pressure to the front wheels from releasing. Then you do your burnout with the rear brakes free, the fronts holding you in place." -marks73TA
Genau. That is what I need to do.

Thanks, fellas. Great to see the progress on your 'three', Mark. Happy 50th to it from me.

[marks73ta]

Ha! I never even thought of it as 50 years. Maybe I need to make up a banner for shows saying it is its 50th. Thanks for the heads up Matt.

[marks73ta]

Well, didn't get the frame clamps for the brake lines in yet. But I did get the rest of the hydraulic throwout bearing system in, installed, and working fine. I used a Wilwood floor mount clutch pedal and master cylinder. The unit placed the pad centerline on the pedal a little bit higher than the center of the brake pedal. But I wanted to reinforce the floor under the pedal assembly so I added a plate of aluminum under the floor to spread out the mount pressure. But the floor there is double thick so I cut out the floor so the clutch pedal base could set down into the floor on top of the plate underneath. This lowered the clutch pedal pad centerline over a half of an inch which makes it much closer to even with the brake. Works great and feels much better than the 1 inch mismatch in heights.
I also bought a cheap little brake sucking bleeder kit that, once all the little plastic hose adaptors peices all broke, I was still able to work it well enough to get the brakes all bled and working. I have to let it set for a day or two and do another bleed. Lots of things getting done and it really feels great.
Front suspension complete.
Rear suspension complete.
Brakes all in and working.
Hydraulic clutch system all in and working.
Waiting for the driveshaft to get done. Ordered it from a local shop on Wednesday and was supposed to see it Friday. Not here yet. Will call Monday.
I really need to attack the turbo mounting so I guess I can't put it off any longer.

Mark L

[marks73ta]

Took some pics of my progress. COMPLETED rear suspension and brakes.



Completed front suspension, shocks, brakes, brake lines, and all the line lock and proportioning valve.





And the clutch pedal assembly is all in, bled and working.



And now my weakness. I just can't give up on the rear mounted radiator. Getting all of that weight off the front and losing all that room to the radiator just keeps me going back to figuring it all out. So I spent some time finishing the trunk floor cutout to fit the dual fan shroud to the floor so it can be sealed.



And mocked up where everyting has to set to make it fit.



I'm going to push it to the very end. I'm going to make a full square tube framework radiator support that will eventually be completely incased in sheet metal. With only the core open to air moving thru. This will get insulated to keep all the heat generated from the end tanks out of the trunk. I have a single radiator fan that I can mount up over th erear axle that will draw air form under the car to help the flow into the trunk. Theres a guy here that louvers trunks etc. I might stamp in a bunch of louvers facing towards the front of the trunk lid. Then hope I've done enough. Still, the big thing will be running the water all the way to the front and back. I'll get that figured out as well. Mark L

[Engine-Ear]

Mark running water front to back gives you a cooling opportunity (tube fins!).

The research I would look into is this: is there a vacuum under the car behind the wheels? If so, SUCK hot air down. If not, BLOW it upward. Next, what is the nature of the air on the back of the car (above the bumper): vacuum or pressure away from the back?

You can buy air flow meters cheap(-ish) and fixture them up on a friend's '63 or '64....go for a drive and see what you get.

Fun measurement opportunity, if you axe me.

Creative louvering (and prudent placement of same) could be all you need (esp in combination of finned front-to-back water lines)!

[marks73ta]

Matt, one thing I dwell on down here is cooling. If I stay with the rear mount radiator I will be making use of the added cooling that the long tubes will give. I may infact over cool and have to regulate the flow or cooling ability of the system. The thing is, I'm not sure I'll be out and about in this thing when the temps are at or above 100. I guess time will tell on how much I use it in the hotter months. But from late sept to june I'm sure I'll be getting as much as I can.
I am in total agreement with your thoughts on the high and low pressure areas of the car. My thoughts are the top of the trunk lid has a high pressure area right after the back window, much like the windsheild has a high pressure area right in fornt of it. Even GM moved the air intake grills on the rear of the corvair from the trunk (motor cover??) lid to the base of the back window. They would not have done that if it was not a benefit. The underside of the car back by the rear axle I'm not sure of. I had to cut an opening in that rear platform in the trunk because it had an angle stamped into it that intefered with my frame crossmember for the spring and shock mounts. But I think I'll make a new cover plate and close it off for now. See how the car works with the trunk louvered and be able to remove the cover later to see if there is any difference. I'm more worried about the engine heat coming down under the car and into that opening and causing a heat source in the trunk. I believe there is usually a high pressure area right under the bumper from the air rushing over the top of the trunk lid and curling around behind the car. But I think (hope) the fan pressure can over come that and keep a good flow of air coming thru the radiator.
And then, I could be completely wrong. Hope find out soon. Mark L

[BruceWilkie]

Mark... Air in between back glass and trunk lid... air out behind and below the bumper. Corvair and VW pretty much do it that way...

Just go to junkyard find a front cowl off something with air inlet between windsheild and hood and graft it into the back of your Cat(between rear window and trunk lid).

I have a spare 69 Firebird front cowl but its raised in the center and would screw-up your body lines(or require a bunch of reshaping)...its yours for the shipping if you cant find something better.

BTW if you are going to graft... the new age body panel adhesive works great... cut your shape...make a flange piece below it ...glue it on ...then glue new piece in place... no warps from heat, no weld accidents ruining the back glass. You'll tear metal before you break the bond.

[Engine-Ear]

Bruce, can you provide a product name / mfr? That sounds like interesting stuff!

[marks73ta]

Put the front end back on for the cruise show. I blacked out the inside fender behind the headlight buckets to see what it would look like without the headlights. I was thinking of closing them off for looks and using small HID headlights down on the frame horns.





A look into the front end where you can see all of the front suspension.



Just a low shot of the ladder bars and wide tires.



I have to cut out the hood to fit around the scoop but I want to try to do it using a flange around the opening. I also have to wait until I know the final configuration for the pipes into the scoop.

Mark L

[Steve Barcak]

Looking good there Mark. we'll see you tomorrow!

[Engine-Ear]

Mark, I wouldn't re-paint it...I might shoot a coat of 70% gloss clear on it to keep it as-found.

I am 50/50 on the missing headlights...maybe some fine-pitch aluminum wire cloth (domed per that of a T-3)?

[marks73ta]

If I do not install the lights I will build something to go inside the openings. Either a reverse cone a block off plate or a flat plate. OK, this is just a thought but I was thinking of adding a deep cone with angel eyes deep down in the openings. Thought it would be cool to have the lighted rings down inside the openings. JUST A THOUGHT.
As far as the original as found condtion of the paint, almost all of my cars through the years were half arsed paint jobs, never ever painted. For once in my life I'm going to paint/get a car painted. I'd like to go out with at least one nice looking painted car. Doesn't have to be a Riddler winner, just a nice clean paint job. But your thought about a clearing over the original is not out of the question either. So I really appreciate the suggestion. It is a popular thing to do now a days. Mark L