[tempest455]

Some random thoughts in response to some of the comments on here. In no particular order:

· For those thinking of a HCP but don’t own a gun or have never shot before, I feel if you desire to take the class and become a HCP holder, you should at least know how some firearm basics, practice shooting first before you take the course. The thought of people getting a permit that don’t know how to properly use and safety a firearm is scary. My buddy and I took the class together and there was a woman taking the HCP class that did not know how to load her weapon. The instructor also cited and example of a person once to took the class that missed the silhouette entirely from 9ft!

· The HCP class will explain laws that apply to your state regarding the HCP. If you ever needed to discharge the weapon, you are responsible for the bullet wherever it goes.

· I’m sure every state is different. In TN, if someone enters your home and you consider them a threat, you shoot and kill that person; the family or any other 3rd party cannot sue you for civil damages. It does not matter if they are armed or not and you are clearly in the wrong, a civil case has in this state has no legs.

· I think some HCP holders carry one wherever they go that is not posted because they have a “permit”. Here is my criteria:

· There is always one in my glove box of my car.

· Work? – Obviously No.

· Do I carry one into store/out to dinner? – No.

· Movie theater? – No

· Kids games/practices? - No

· Do I carry one at social gathering with friends/family? – No

· If I’m looking or buying something from an ad in the paper or internet? – Yes

· If I’m hiking in the woods w/ my kids or any other rural area w/ family? – Yes

· When your wife’s car gets a flat off the interstate near downtown – Yes

I posted all that just to point out, just because I have a HCP, I don’t have one with me all the time.

I have read statistics that it takes anywhere from 6-10 min on average in the US for a response to a 911 call. Worse if you are in a rural area. It took 30 min for a response to a breaking and entering 911 call when my buddy was robbed in Milwaukee. He was standing in the front yard talking to 911 dispatcher when they walked out the door w/ his stuff and guns, still took the cops over 30 min to get there!

I think it comes down to some common sense when/how to protect yourself and family. The police rarely prevent situations; they report and investigate what happened after the fact.

[T A 70]

In the event of a home invasion and you needed the lethal force of a gun just remember when you make that 911 call the "tape" will still be running after you report the incident. Perhaps one should consider hanging up after all necessary info has been provided to the dispatcher..
Also, people have been sent to prison for legit situations for using a gun and not keeping their mouths shut before representation. One that I know of involved a guy going to dinner with his wife carrying his gun legally, then shooting/killing a perp during an attempted mugging scenario. When asked if he "always carries his pistol" he replied "only when I come to bad parts of town like this". Big mistake, he got 10 ten years in a jury's mind for intent to use that weapon.
There plenty of good reasons to carry, and for others, stupidity may be a good reason not to.

[sixgunsblazing]

Originally Posted by tempest455

-snip-

· I think some HCP holders carry one wherever they go that is not posted because they have a “permit”. Here is my criteria:

· There is always one in my glove box of my car. NO

· Work? – Obviously No. YES

· Do I carry one into store/out to dinner? – No.YES

· Movie theater? – No YES

· Kids games/practices? - No YES

· Do I carry one at social gathering with friends/family? – No YES

· If I’m looking or buying something from an ad in the paper or internet? – Yes

· If I’m hiking in the woods w/ my kids or any other rural area w/ family? – Yes

· When your wife’s car gets a flat off the interstate near downtown – Yes

I posted all that just to point out, just because I have a HCP, I don’t have one with me all the time. I guess we differ, I carry 24/7, the only exception is when I'm drinking

-snip-
I think it comes down to some common sense when/how to protect yourself and family. The police rarely prevent situations; they report and investigate what happened after the fact. <= and I'm gonna leave that there

And my last snippet of advice is, Concealed means Concealed

[Brian Baker]

Drummer...try to carry a handgun in Maryland "openly" and see what happens.

[lust4speed]

foxwolf321, I respect your viewpoint. With your beliefs, not carrying a firearm is the correct choice for you. You should probably carry a sufficient amount of cash so you do not upset the robber - you definitely don't want him venting his anger on you for not having enough money for his drug purchase.

I have the option to toss him my wallet, but there is a point of no return for him and me - and he will be in total control of his own destiny. No one should carry if they think that they are carrying to scare someone away, and no one should carry if they think they will be a hero and stop a robbery. Only one reason to possess a concealed firearm, and that is to protect your life or the life of a loved one. I'm not a LEO, and if I see another person being robbed I will feel sorry for them but nothing more. No calvary charge, and no heroics. As they say in the CCW class - your most important role is to be a good witness when the police arrive.

[Stuckinda60s]

Our preacher, from the pulpit on a Sunday morning. "I know there are a couple of guys in here who are carrying. I've gotta tell you, that's comforting."

Foxwolf: I found myself in a lot of situations before I was married. There were a couple of times when, if I'd been carrying, I would have pulled it out. The situations worked out, but they still happened and might not have. I've been threatened with rocks, guns, knives and clubs. Several times I was walking down the street and got in a situation, with a stranger, out of a clear blue sky. The guys were drunk or just plain nuts. I never been confrontational and didn't initiate the problem. Some times they got physical and some times I managed to talk my way out of it. Once I even had a gun pulled on me in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, of all places. That one got physical, and I'm still here. I could handle myself, pretty well, and never considered carrying.

When I got married, and knowing where I traveled and my history, I decided to get a permit. If you're a responsible person, your thinking changes. I now had my wife, and later my daughter, to think about.

I've since had a permit for 35-years, and carry most of the time. I don't drink or go to bars, so that's not a problem, although it's legal to carry in a bar in PA. As Sixgunsblazing stated, concealed carry means concealed. If you pull it out or have it in the open, it can be considered brandishing. I'm very, very, careful to keep it concealed. That also means in the car.

As a side note, I haven't had any problems since before I was married. I have had peace of mind when I've been in questionable areas, though. At the very least, that makes it worth it.

[foxwolf321]

i thank you for understanding my viewpoint. But when i see comments of I wish i had shot him in the head instead of the gut, is that joking or real? I think with the power of a firearm it can be too easy for that thought to become real action. I am not saying every gun toting guy is going around shooting criminals just because he can. But i think it takes true will power to not try and be the hero of the day. I would have a hard time of it and that's why i can not endorse firearms. Too easy to get out of control with it in the name of justice.

EDIT: I can fully understand why you would carry a gun, not to protect your self, but your loved ones. I can fully understand and respect that. But i think having a nation full of people with a concealed weapon and many with no true reason to have one would just be regretful.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by foxwolf321

i thank you for understanding my viewpoint. But when i see comments of I wish i had shot him in the head instead of the gut, is that joking or real? I think with the power of a firearm it can be too easy for that thought to become real action. I am not saying every gun toting guy is going around shooting criminals just because he can. But i think it takes true will power to not try and be the hero of the day. I would have a hard time of it and that's why i can not endorse firearms. Too easy to get out of control with it in the name of justice.

EDIT: I can fully understand why you would carry a gun, not to protect your self, but your loved ones. I can fully understand and respect that. But i think having a nation full of people with a concealed weapon and many with no true reason to have one would just be regretful.

May I suggest that you read the book "More Guns, Less Crime" by Prof. John Lott? In a nutshell, your assumption that a nation full of concealed carry permit holders would be regretful is dead wrong, and Lott demonstrates why in his book, using FBI statistical data.

[johnsma22]

Originally Posted by foxwolf321

i thank you for understanding my viewpoint. But when i see comments of I wish i had shot him in the head instead of the gut, is that joking or real?

It's part real, part hyperbole I guess. I can't say that I wish I had killed the guy. In fact, I'm glad I didn't, but that's only for selfish reasons. He was screaming to anyone who would listen at the scene that I shot him for no reason. I remember thinking that he wouldn't be doing that had I shot him in the head. My instinct and training said "center mass" though. Had I killed him he wouldn't have carjacked a family at gunpoint several years later, after serving time for the crimes against my wife and I. Me putting that POS out of his misery would have protected another family that I didn't even know. He's doing 20 years, so I hope he's enjoying his stay.

[Stuckinda60s]

The Sheriff gave me a little psych test when I went for my permit. He asked me why I wanted it, what would I do if I felt threatened, if I pointed at someone would I use it and what would I do if the guy took off. I told him "For protection, I often went to bad areas; If I thought the there was a threat I'd pull my pistol; if I pulled it I would use it, otherwise I wouldn't have pulled it; and if the guy took off I'd put it away." Obviously I gave the right answers, PA was not a "Shall issue" state, then.

I can understand someone who's put through the wringer after they've shot some low-life, regretting they were still alive to cause them grief. But if it happened, again, they would probably have handled it the same way.

[Tom Vaught]

Put enough rounds in the threat to eliminate the threat and you have done your job.

If the threat is there, you will know it.

Tom Vaught

[sevent2gto]

Getting a HCP carries great responsibility. Understanding use of force and deadly force requirements is a must when getting a HCP. There are people out there that have a HCP that really shouldn't even be allowed to own a gun (IMO), because they are not safe. One of the key things that is stressed in the TN HCP class is that you are responsible for the bullet once it leaves the barrel of the gun. You can't get it back so you had better be damn sure when you squeeze the trigger. I carry my handgun all the time and I follow all laws regarding where and when I can carry. I have the advantage of many years of military training and being a military small arms instructor and a NRA pistol instructor.
Here in TN, the crime rate has dropped and this is attributed to the number of people getting their HCP.
I am all for people getting a HCP if their state allows it, but, I think that people should get more training than just the HCP class before they start to carry. The training should come from a certified instructor and not just "my buddy that shoots".

[mike nixon]

The following was taught to me as a youngster. I've been hunting since I was able to safely handle a gun, a CCP holder for a lot of yrs as stated before.

The following was taught to me when I started hunting, it holds true for carrying.

If you pull a gun up be prepared to use it.

Know where the slug will travel, it's your responsibility. You wrote that check when you pulled the trigger you'll pay for it when it comes to rest.

If you pull it, shoot to kill cleanly, a sloppy shot causes suffering. If you can't make a clean kill you've got no reason to pick up a gun, if you can't handle the thought of killing something don't pick up the gun.

When you carry be subtle about it, no one else needs to know what you're about. I will add that game will run from a gun, idiots will run towards one to make a scene.


Attitude and outlook changes when you have someone else's safety to consider.

[Jim Scites]

I have had a permit for about 12 years now. When I first got the permit I didn't carry at all, I wanted it mostly to carry between my home and the range without being so concerned about an overzealous LEO that saw my guns in cases and not out in the open. I now have a house in the country that belongs to my parents that I check on as often as I get by there. When I visit the house I am almost always armed, I never know if someone might have broken in and with all the snow I'm afraid someone might have broken in to get warm, if I walk up on a stranger in the house I feel it's better to be safe them sorry.
When I took my CCW class I was told that you do not shoot to kill or shoot to wound, you shoot to STOP. Whatever they are doing to make you shoot them, you keep shooting them until they stop whatever they were doing. If they are charging you with a knife, or are holding a broken bottle to your wife's throat you shoot them until they stop. When our Pontiac brother gut shot the guy he stopped holding the bottle to his wife's throat so he stopped shooting, job well done IMHO.
I'm not allowed to carry on duty at work so I never bring a weapon to work with me, I work in DC and it's illegal for me to carry open or concealed so I trust my instincts and try to stay away from dangerous situations. I have run into homeless people that I tried to stay away from but they forced the situation, and I'm sure the only thing that saved me was my physical size.
I feel that anyone, except for someone found guilty of a felony or someone found insane should be able to carry a concealed weapon. I also feel that our government should not be as intrusive into our daily lives as they always seem to be. CCW permits are just ways to control the masses, a way to gather up guns if they ever decide they want to gather them up and another TAX to gather revenue, more money for them to waste.

[SRR]

I was in a situation once where a gun was involved. I was 17 at the time working for my uncle who had a home heating service business in Mass. that required us to go into some bad neighborhoods and very dark basements. While we were servicing the boiler in a large apartment building a guy appears out of no where and asks my uncle for a cigarette, my uncle says sure hands him one and then the guy says while showing us a large knife attached to his belt: I think I'll take the whole pack. My uncle then pulls a LARGE hand gun and says do you want me to light that MF for you too? Then guy then left very quickly then for some reason.

[Cobrabill]

Indisputable fact:An armed society is a POLITE society.

Like Brian said,if you are not willing to use deadly force to defend the life of your family and/or you-You are not a man.

[hurryinhoosier62]

I'm in the process of getting my CCP reissued after having to surrender it while I lived in
Wisconsin(DAMNED JERK-OFF JIM!!). My grandfather and father both had CCPs. Grandpa
Ernest actually killed two men in self-defense. Dad never had to draw his weapon,but Uncle Bill had to a couple of years ago when some jerk-off pulled a shotgun on him in a case of "road-rage". T A 70, I can't speak for the rest of the state but in this part of
Indiana, most county prosecutors won't pursue charges against CCP holders UNLESS
there was no probable cause for the discharge.

[400 4spd.]

Eric, very well put!

[Nomadac]

Very interesting topic and posts. Some random comments to some of the posts.

Quote Sporter
Most states will honor a carry permit so it is helpful if you travel on the interstates. I never travel unarmed.
I would you check for Reciprocity by State what States CCW's or PPW they honor, as not every State honors everyother States CCW's.

GTORIC question:
Anyone who has been convicted of a felony is banned by federal law from ever possessing “any firearm or ammunition." Specifically a person "convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" cannot possess any firearm in any location. 18 U.S.C. 922(g) is the federal law that prohibits anyone ever convicted of any felony to ever possess any firearm either inside or outside of his home. The federal punishment for felon gun possession is up to 10 years in prison.

In response to foxwolf321
But at the moment I think possessing a gun will do myself more harm then it will save me from.

IMO no one should carry a firearm if they are not willing or have training in gun safety/handling, competent in marksmanship and the mindset to use the firearm if your life is threatened, which could result in killing someone, if needed to stop the threat.

That is a decision each individual should decide and may have to live with the results. To carry a concealed weapon you should be trained on it's use and know the law as to when, where and how you can use it legally. Taking a Hunter Safety couse is also helpful. IMO anyone carrying a firearm concealed should have adequate liability insurance, such as an Umbrella Policy to protect them for liability. Like someone posted once a bullet is fired it cannot be recalled and you are liable for what it hits. Always know what is behind what you might be shooting at.

When I lived in Southern Calif. during the 90's the requirement to obtain a CCW was a very involved process. You had to go to your local PD or Sherrif's Dept. to apply, then you were interviewed as to why you wanted a CCW. Then you were required to take a 15-17 hr. training course, which happened to the same curriculum for an Armed Security Gurard in CA. This included both classroom(included many senarios, legal issues, etc.) and qualifying with the firearm(s) you wished to carry to demonstrate safe gun handling. If you passed all of the requirements which includes proof of Liability Insurance for a min. or $500K, you are issued a CCW good at the time for one year. After I left the State they increased it to two years. Each year for renewal you were required to complete the qualification course. It was not unusual for the complete process to take 6 months from the time you applied. The course I attended was conducted by a retired firearms instructor from LAPD, that was one great pistol shot. Many of the tng. videos he used were from LAPD training. This was a very interesting experience.


There are many excellent books on the subject, many that you can find at NRA website or the web.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Nomadac,

I believe you'll find the CCP process here in Indiana a little more "user friendly"!! I agree
with you concerning marksmanship. If you chose to carry a firearm, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure you are as proficient as possible. Too many people buy a
pistol, get their permit and NEVER step foot on a firing range. Marksmanship is a LEARNED skill. It requires practice. One of my favorite memories is sitting Dad and Grandpa Ernest while they both taught me the proper and SAFE handling of any firearm.
I couldn't have been more than 5 yrs old.