[pastry_chef]

Installed intake centerline?

Did you guys play with lash?

[Scott Roberts]

I'm never surprised by your great results Jim... you have always made impressive power no matter what parts you use..

[Jim Robertson]

The SK manifold we used had a QJet flange. We used an open QJet to 4150 adapter and blended into top of runners. We did not open the runners as this intake is destined for a 303 build. wil start another thread, but the 303 is another very neat build using one of the original 303 blocks with rear mounted cam driven oil pump, 2.840" stroke forged crank and Carillo rods, Ram Air IV heads. Crank came out of the Tiny Lund shop.

Installed CL is 105

Played with lash years ago on this cam and we ran the best combo as this test was focused on heads and intake manifolds.

These tests solidified a cross section number we will use in future builds. Smaller faster more efficient ports is the trend ...knowing how small is too small is key. More flow thru the head and thru the entire intake tract does not allows result in more HP.

Example: The Offy intake manifold flowed the most air on the flow bench and on the running engine but it ended up at the low end of the Tq and HP numbers.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Jim Robertson

Example: The Offy intake manifold flowed the most air on the flow bench and on the running engine but it ended up at the low end of the Tq and HP numbers.

Mirrors the testing we did on a intake manifold flow bench study many years ago, Jim.
Tom V.

[tom s]

Jim,that is the std deck 303 block I helped them get?Tom

[Dragncar]

Whittmore told me the Warrior will 60ft like a RPM but have top end like a Victor, because of the long runners. It was one of the first, if not very first aftermarket single plane intakes of any make. The first one was designed for the 366 with RAIV heads and made out of fiberglass and designed from the start to add spacers for plenum volume. It was also designed from the start to be used with the new at the time Holley 4500 carbs. If you look at a 4500 Warrior one butterfly sits exactly right in the middle of two intake runners.
Mine was a 4150 that I converted to 4500 with Dans instructions. Runs best with a spacer I made out of two 1/2" thick 6"x6" aluminum plates. I made the bottom one bolt to the 4500 flange with recessed 5/16 allen heads. Then have some recessed 1/4" allens holding the top one down and 4150 studs and open under carb. And a 1" Super Sucker on top of that.
So its a 1" open adapter with the tapered Super Sucker.
The Nell, Addams crew had input on the intake being made. So it has PMD roots.
Dan W. had a magnesium version. Also a 62 389, 4 speed swiss cheese Super Duty Catalina in his garage. Aluminum front wrap and all. Wonder what happened to all his stuff ?

[tom s]

FWI,they never built a 62 SD Swiss Cheese car.Tom

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by tom s

FWI,they never built a 62 SD Swiss Cheese car.Tom

Let not let facts get in the way of a good story.

[BruceWilkie]

Long runners enhance lower rpm range and short enhance higher RPM range.
...A general statement because if length is far from it's "tune" range results would be hard to predict.

Plenum... Just think of it as a reversion dampner. Too big will usually affect response and lower rpm power often drops off.

I'm still a big fan of the HSD with 1" or more open spacer on a 400-440 combo.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Whittmore told me the Warrior will 60ft like a RPM but have top end like a Victor, because of the long runners. It was one of the first, if not very first aftermarket single plane intakes of any make. The first one was designed for the 366 with RAIV heads and made out of fiberglass and designed from the start to add spacers for plenum volume. It was also designed from the start to be used with the new at the time Holley 4500 carbs. If you look at a 4500 Warrior one butterfly sits exactly right in the middle of two intake runners.
Mine was a 4150 that I converted to 4500 with Dans instructions.
The Nell, Addams crew had input on the intake being made. So it has PMD roots.
Dan W. had a magnesium version.

1) The "WARRIOR" was a name made up by the Hunt Brothers years after Doug Nash (a Ford racer and Skilled Trades guy) worked with Tom Nell (a Pontiac Engineer) on the design.
The original manifolds were called Doug Nash manifolds and were cast up in magnesium ALL OF THEM.

2) SK Engineering was involved in the production of the Aluminum Manifolds which came later.

3) Ray and Dale Hunt owned a speed shop on the west side of the Detroit Area and marketed the Aluminum intakes under the Warrior name.

4) I was told that Al Gonzales (who made a lot of the 60s aluminum Fuel Injection Intakes) was involved in the casting process. You see a ALGON Mechanical Fuel Injection intake on e*ay occasionally. Some RA-V Algon manifolds were cast up. Some PY members have them.

5) The Fiberglass Intake you refer to was created, based on a runner design from a Ford Engineer buddy that Doug knew from his job.

6) I was told by Doug and others that the Fiberglass intake was used for flow studies and pattern work that eventually led to the magnesium intake manifolds.

7) As was said, the original magnesium Nash intakes were for the 366 engines. They made a Dual Dominator (Individual Runner intake - one bore per cylinder) because Ford was working on a similar intake that was to work with the Ford Autolite inline 4 bbl carbs. One bore per cylinder.
John Medrick was the engineer on the Autolite Inline Carb project (and later one of my bosses).

The upper (Dual 660 cfm carb plenum) was added later as an afterthought to allow dual quad drag racers a Pontiac race intake.

So Ray Hunt and his brother actually did nothing on the intakes except sell the things from their speed shop years later.

You are correct on the plenum volume deal.
Racers at one time actually added plenum volume on the bottom of the plenum to help with installations larger than 366 cid.
Some even made cover plates above the valve covers to hide that extra volume change from other racers.

Tom V.

Individual Runner intakes for the most part are lousy drag race intakes unless you put a really large throttle blade in each runner. Holley tried that deal with their 4600 Dominators on a 355 cid Booth-Aarons chevy project years later. They gave up and did the Plenum deal.

[Skip Fix]

"You see a ALGON Mechanical Fuel Injection intake on e*ay occasionally. "

The 409 guys like them!

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by tom s

FWI,they never built a 62 SD Swiss Cheese car.Tom

Must have been a "whatever year they made a SD 389 4 speed with aluminum body panels and holes in the frame". 61-62 ?
Dont confuse a typo with a made up story PAUL K!!!

The man had the car, what, you think I would call into question a good mans reputation after he has passed ? His car was a little different as one thing, either the trunk or hood was steel.

Its a bad look Paul.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Must have been a "whatever year they made a SD 389 4 speed with aluminum body panels and holes in the frame". 61-62 ?
Dont confuse a typo with a made up story PAUL K!!!

The man had the car, what, you think I would call into question a good mans reputation after he has passed ? His car was a little different as one thing, either the trunk or hood was steel.

Its a bad look Paul.

Troy, I actually thought it was a good story. I know DW had a Super Duty Catalina but I don't think it was an aluminum front end car..... imo not really important what the car actually was, just cool that he owned one.

BTW, I don't think you make things up... you just get a lot of facts confused.

[Dragncar]

Thanks for the history Tom. Thinking about sending mine to Gabby for some plenum work. Prices are not that bad. When I asked him about doing mine like Ace's, welding and lowering the plenum he said that might not be when they are doing with them today.
I wonder if a "wide port" Warrior has ever been made ?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Thanks for the history Tom. Thinking about sending mine to Gabby for some plenum work. Prices are not that bad. When I asked him about doing mine like Ace's, welding and lowering the plenum he said that might not be when they are doing with them today.
I wonder if a "wide port" Warrior has ever been made ?

Would Gabby do the Warrior instead of Marcella doing your Tiger manifold? Or are you doing both to compare them? I wonder if either would be better than your Northwind.

I made a tall port Warrior that works pretty good. It'd take a lot of work to put a Warrior on a true wideport head.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Thanks for the history Tom. Thinking about sending mine to Gabby for some plenum work. Prices are not that bad. When I asked him about doing mine like Ace's, welding and lowering the plenum he said that might not be when they are doing with them today.
I wonder if a "wide port" Warrior has ever been made ?

What about the Marcella Tiger intake you are having done? Maybe you can track test both the Marcella Tiger and the Gaby Warrior and let us know how they compare?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Troy, I actually thought it was a good story. I know DW had a Super Duty Catalina but I don't think it was an aluminum front end car..... imo not really important what the car actually was, just cool that he owned one.

BTW, I don't think you make things up... you just get a lot of facts confused.

Paul, I put stuff out there because its something I know to be true. I don t expect people to try and make some detail, significant or not take away from the main point of the post. It can make me seem like something other than honest to some.
You did it to me on my thread trying to sell my Gabby heads and that can affect someone negatively and hurt them in real life. Cost them money. Had the post removed. You have a interest in the heads, some could say it serves a purpose.
Most Pontiac folk know the years of the factory aluminum cars, made a typo. Not like I was trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes. Calling me a lyar is the fastest way to tick me off. You could have just let Toms post stand. We all know what he meant. He is one of the most respeted posters here.
Ok, cool Paul. Lets just keep Jims thread on the rails.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

1) The "WARRIOR" was a name made up by the Hunt Brothers years after Doug Nash (a Ford racer and Skilled Trades guy) worked with Tom Nell (a Pontiac Engineer) on the design.
The original manifolds were called Doug Nash manifolds and were cast up in magnesium ALL OF THEM.

3) Ray and Dale Hunt owned a speed shop on the west side of the Detroit Area and marketed the Aluminum intakes under the Warrior name.

So Ray Hunt and his brother actually did nothing on the intakes except sell the things from their speed shop years later.


Tom V.

Funny thing, I actually knew Dale and Ray Hunt I hung out at their shop in Westland (not Detroit area).......Cherry Hill and Wayne road (actually their shop was on Wayne road) if i remember correctly it was a LOOOONG time ago! They never had anything fast.....mostly stocker stuff.


GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Funny thing, I actually knew Dale and Ray Hunt I hung out at their shop in Westland (not Detroit area).......Cherry Hill and Wayne road (actually their shop was on Wayne road) if i remember correctly it was a LOOOONG time ago! They never had anything fast.....mostly stocker stuff.

GTO George

Dale and his son were alright, Ray was something else. Bet you were buds. I went by the business the day after the guy fired a bunch of rounds thru the front window, George. Ray kind of "hid out for a while" after that deal.

You a Transplant from Hamtramic George?

Tom V.

[tom s]

Hate to derail Jims thread but for history,the factory did make a few 389 62 SDs with alu but the only cars with the swiss cheese frame were 13 63 SD cars.No factory 61 SD cars were made,they came off the line as 425A cars and were converted to SD engines with over the counter parts,in 61 alu bumpers were avail over the counter also.Tom